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Old 12-03-2010, 03:10 AM   #91
KevinM
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It takes about a month for all my known effects to clear when I ingest something. I usually get some energy problems with a thyroid, indigestion where food just won't digest properly and I'm constantly hungry, some haziness and trouble thinking or paying attention. I also have excema in some cases. Even then, from the first time I did it, it took me a few months gluten free before I had my system cleared and working.

And yes, generally those do have a form of gluten and some people are allergic to those, but it's usually an allergy specific to those grains rather than gluten itself. Most common are the wheat, barley and rye with oats coming up after that. Corn and even rice allergies are not unheard of though.

And nope, not brewing anything this weekend that I know of, but I think I'm ready to bottle my accidental sorghumwines so I can get my jugs ready so I can brew something in the next few weeks. Perhaps I'll do a tea stout and that coffee stout. I'm still thinking if it's possible for me to do a partial mash thing, or if soaking and roasting unmalted grains might give some flavor.



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Old 12-03-2010, 03:31 PM   #92
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I think the "bone pain" might be joint pain associated with anemia, or lack of iron in the blood. This comes from not digesting enough food to get the nutrients from it. This is the way my mom reacted to gluten.

My sister is less reactive, just gets skin problems and is really tired.

My girlfriend has severe digestive issues, but it only happens after continued exposure.

So I think it ranges, even in two people who are genetically related.

I have a peanut/treenut allergy and generally just get swelling and hives. Not sure if that helps, but it seems to be part of the discussion now.



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Old 12-03-2010, 04:46 PM   #93
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that is funny, when you go for alternative flours to gluten you end up with exactly those, tapioca, rice and corn.

So your telling me corn has gluten in it?
Gluten is a bit of a misnomer, because it's a name for a large set of proteins with similar properties, but different compositions.

Celiacs are actually allergic to only 3 of the many peptides that make up a wheat's gluten protein. So technically gluten isn't the issue, those specific peptides are the issue, which means that celiacs don't have any problem eating the similar, yet different, gluten proteins found in Corn Gluten, Rice Gluten, Tapioca Gluten, Oat Gluten, Quinoa Gluten, etc.

However, it's typically a lot easier to say, "I need to eat gluten-free" than "I can't be exposed to 3 peptides contained in Triticeae Glutens"

My Personal Hypothesis:
While research hasn't been done I suspect that we'll end up finding that barley is less harmful to celiacs than wheat because it either has a lower concentration of these 3 peptides, or it's only got 1 or 2 of the 3 evil peptides. And maybe in the future we'll figure out a way to either simply turn off the immune-response to those peptides or create some chemical that binds with the peptides or destroys them in-gut so that they are neutralized before ingestion.

Here's links with probably more science than you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_immunochemistry
Robert Anderson's actual research paper suggesting only 3 peptides are to blame.
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Old 12-03-2010, 06:35 PM   #94
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I think the "bone pain" might be joint pain associated with anemia, or lack of iron in the blood. This comes from not digesting enough food to get the nutrients from it. This is the way my mom reacted to gluten.

My sister is less reactive, just gets skin problems and is really tired.

My girlfriend has severe digestive issues, but it only happens after continued exposure.

So I think it ranges, even in two people who are genetically related.

I have a peanut/treenut allergy and generally just get swelling and hives. Not sure if that helps, but it seems to be part of the discussion now.
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Originally Posted by aggieotis View Post
Gluten is a bit of a misnomer, because it's a name for a large set of proteins with similar properties, but different compositions.

Celiacs are actually allergic to only 3 of the many peptides that make up a wheat's gluten protein. So technically gluten isn't the issue, those specific peptides are the issue, which means that celiacs don't have any problem eating the similar, yet different, gluten proteins found in Corn Gluten, Rice Gluten, Tapioca Gluten, Oat Gluten, Quinoa Gluten, etc.

However, it's typically a lot easier to say, "I need to eat gluten-free" than "I can't be exposed to 3 peptides contained in Triticeae Glutens"

My Personal Hypothesis:
While research hasn't been done I suspect that we'll end up finding that barley is less harmful to celiacs than wheat because it either has a lower concentration of these 3 peptides, or it's only got 1 or 2 of the 3 evil peptides. And maybe in the future we'll figure out a way to either simply turn off the immune-response to those peptides or create some chemical that binds with the peptides or destroys them in-gut so that they are neutralized before ingestion.

Here's links with probably more science than you want:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_immunochemistry
Robert Anderson's actual research paper suggesting only 3 peptides are to blame.
wow, this is all great info, thanks, I will share with the wife.

On another not, went to the eye doc today, he said it is not out of the realm that it is allergy related but he didn't think so. Had to stay PC I guess.

I have some meds, will get that a try, if things clear up while I'm on gluten, I guess I will know.

On another side note, I notice when I have a good amount of beer, my bones ache the next day too. I thought it was just part of a hangover but maybe something else.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:13 PM   #95
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wow, this is all great info, thanks, I will share with the wife.

On another not, went to the eye doc today, he said it is not out of the realm that it is allergy related but he didn't think so. Had to stay PC I guess.

I have some meds, will get that a try, if things clear up while I'm on gluten, I guess I will know.

On another side note, I notice when I have a good amount of beer, my bones ache the next day too. I thought it was just part of a hangover but maybe something else.
I sometimes had some weird reactions to wheat beers when I lived in Germany. There were so unfiltered and pure that I had some funky stuff go on. I originally attributed it to wheat, but I haven't been able to replicate it in the states no matter what I eat or drink, so who knows what it was. I even would eat entire bauggettes (sp?)_ over there and have no reaction.

In summary, I think you are probably just hungover. In general, beer doesn't have that much gluten in it, and you would be worse off eating a sandwich than an entire 12pack. It might be dehydration or any number of other things that come with drinking.

Although, I could use some help on figuring out why storebought red wines make me have amazingly large headaches and nausea, to the point of throwing up. This is usually after a glass or two, but doesn't occur till the next day. Also accompanied by skin redness on my neck, but that isn't abnormal for drinking, it is just worse than normal. This is a recent phenomenon.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:07 PM   #96
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I sometimes had some weird reactions to wheat beers when I lived in Germany. There were so unfiltered and pure that I had some funky stuff go on. I originally attributed it to wheat, but I haven't been able to replicate it in the states no matter what I eat or drink, so who knows what it was. I even would eat entire bauggettes (sp?)_ over there and have no reaction.

In summary, I think you are probably just hungover. In general, beer doesn't have that much gluten in it, and you would be worse off eating a sandwich than an entire 12pack. It might be dehydration or any number of other things that come with drinking.

Although, I could use some help on figuring out why storebought red wines make me have amazingly large headaches and nausea, to the point of throwing up. This is usually after a glass or two, but doesn't occur till the next day. Also accompanied by skin redness on my neck, but that isn't abnormal for drinking, it is just worse than normal. This is a recent phenomenon.
wow, that is crazy. I am just hoping the meds I got today will take care of the eyes. If they do, I quess I am good. Although I wouldn't mind doing gluten free beer, I have too much equipment that I have put together to do extract. I guess I could mash rice it certainly is cheap in bulk
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:22 PM   #97
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Well, you could make some gluten free beer even if it's not the case. Just make sure you make enough and send it to us, we would put it to good use.

Personally, I'm looking forward to using buckwheat since it looks like the others have had some success in flavor with that, in conjunction with sorghum or brown rice.

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Old 12-03-2010, 10:52 PM   #98
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It takes about a month for all my known effects to clear when I ingest something. I usually get some energy problems with a thyroid, indigestion where food just won't digest properly and I'm constantly hungry, some haziness and trouble thinking or paying attention. I also have excema in some cases. Even then, from the first time I did it, it took me a few months gluten free before I had my system cleared and working.

+1
Very similar.


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Originally Posted by DKershner View Post
Although, I could use some help on figuring out why storebought red wines make me have amazingly large headaches and nausea, to the point of throwing up. This is usually after a glass or two, but doesn't occur till the next day. Also accompanied by skin redness on my neck, but that isn't abnormal for drinking, it is just worse than normal. This is a recent phenomenon.
Definitely sounds like an allergy or RWH (red wine headache). My mother and wife both can not tolerate red wine. I have heard tannins as a possible cause, along with various additives. If it is only certain brands, I would guess the latter.
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Old 12-07-2010, 08:53 PM   #99
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Although, I could use some help on figuring out why storebought red wines make me have amazingly large headaches and nausea, to the point of throwing up. This is usually after a glass or two, but doesn't occur till the next day. Also accompanied by skin redness on my neck, but that isn't abnormal for drinking, it is just worse than normal. This is a recent phenomenon.

Hmm odd. I do almost the same thing, but within a matter of 30 minutes to an hour. Redness for me is pretty much all over though. Arms and face both get very splotchy.

In the late 90's my mom and I both had a major problem eating at salad bars. Within 15 or so minutes of the first bite, it was to the john we go for a few hours of misery. After a bit of research, we found out a lot of places were spraying their veggies with sodium bisulfite to prevent browning. As far as I know, that has been stopped due to so many people reacting to it.

I figure it is the same thing in the wine, but I'm not a big fan anyway so it's never really bothered me. Maybe you could try dosing a batch of water with sodium metabisulfite at the recommended level and drink two glasses. See if you get the same reaction. Then, you'd just have to get sulfite free wine. Problem solved.
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Old 12-08-2010, 03:36 PM   #100
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I figure it is the same thing in the wine, but I'm not a big fan anyway so it's never really bothered me. Maybe you could try dosing a batch of water with sodium metabisulfite at the recommended level and drink two glasses. See if you get the same reaction. Then, you'd just have to get sulfite free wine. Problem solved.
I just used sodium metabisulphite in our holiday cider, I can drink that without issue. It is probably less than is used in commercial wines though, plus sulphite naturally occurs in grape skins, I think.


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