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-   -   All grain GF sweet vanilla stout (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f164/all-grain-gf-sweet-vanilla-stout-242290/)

mcbethenstein 04-27-2011 03:27 PM

All grain GF sweet vanilla stout
Since I'm home and bored, I can't stop thinking about the sweet stout I brewed for the SO. I checked my gravity last night and it's ready to be bottled. But I want to drink some. So I pose this challenge to everyone out here. Can you help me come up with an all grain sweet vanilla stout recipe that is GF? I'm gonna try malting buckwheat over the next few days. I could take a small amount of that malt and with your guidance roast to a chocolate and/or black malt. I haven't yet found out the difference in how to roast to chocolate vs. Black. I read on other threads D2 syrup can help with the color. I have a whole ton of lactose and can get high quality vanilla beans or extract. I just am not sure of what grains to use, and how they might play into the final flavor. Would I need to add oats for head retention? Since making my last GF beer I found that bobs red mill also has rolled GF oats... I think it would be easier to mash with those instead of steel cut. I'm hoping we can come up with something that will rival any barley beer!

andrewdell19 04-27-2011 04:37 PM

Buckwheat gives off more of a nutty flavor. Roast slowly or I have heard you kill most of the enzymes if dark roasting and you do it quickly. I would start at 250, then increase 25-50 degress each 20 mins to get to your desired color.
Dark Candi Syrup works well to darken the color as does a little bit of coffee grains. I am wondering how dark corn syrup would do as well. If doing all grain I think you will need about 10 lbs of grains although I am not positive.

mcbethenstein 04-27-2011 04:56 PM

The all grain regular sweet stout was 9 lbs.
8 of Maris otter and .5 each of chocolate malt and Debittered black. Since I know that GF grains have less effeciency I would plan for 10-11 lbs. Should I go all buckwheat? Or will millet or quinoa help out?

andrewdell19 04-27-2011 05:07 PM

I have not gotten millet to malt

dorklord 04-27-2011 05:23 PM

I did an extract brew that was supposed to be an Oatmeal Stout. In reality, it came out as an Oatmeal Brown or something...

I can't really give any advice for the all-grain side, but if I were doing my extract again, I'd shoot for 1 lb of roast buckwheat, and since it is basically 'debittered' (dehusked) I'd shoot for the line between chocolate and black. The batch I did, I think I should have roasted a bit longer and a bit hotter. I would probably roast 1 lb of it, and then when I think it is good, take 1/2 lb out and call it chocolate, leave the other half in and bump the temp up.

I also think that, given the issues with converting most GF grains in the first place, any grain you roast is going to have 0 enzymatic power and you can't really depend on your other grains to convert a significant portion. In other words, I would personally treat those grains as being for color and flavor only.

I think what you'll need to do for this to work is to have a base malt that you can depend on to produce your fermentables, and to supplement that with roast buckwheat AND candi syrup to provide the caramelized sugars, color, flavors, etc.

mcbethenstein 04-27-2011 05:25 PM

Do you know what type of flavors each GF grain results in? I know sorghum is citrusy and astringent, what do the others taste like?

dorklord 04-27-2011 05:31 PM

I thought quinoa was bitter, and I didn't care for either the taste or the smell of it after roasting.

The buckwheat...its smell and taste progressed from a sort of baked-goods up to a nutty flavor, and when I pushed it to what I figured was chocolate roast, it was a rich, nutty, "toast" flavor. I never got it to that burnt/smoky flavor (I was trying to avoid that, actually).

For me, my millet went from a bready, baked goods flavor/smell to a bitter, smoky, burnt taste very quickly. I can't say for sure if I did something wrong, or what, but both the quinoa and the millet I roasted I haven't used yet because they tasted burnt/bitter.

andrewdell19 04-27-2011 05:58 PM

Really? After I got the quinoa to sprout, I kilned it for a very long time. It came out smelling awesome and nice and sweet. It was white quinoa so not sure if you used something else? However I did get them to sprout first and maybe that is the trick. So my next step is to steep the roasted malted quinoa in water and get a feel for the taste.

So from all of that, I would suggest trying to get your buckwheat and quinoa to sprout, then kiln, then roast, then steep away!! Getting them to sprout was really easy. Just rinsed the grains, but them in warm water in a container, and let soak for about 4 hours. Then air it out for a few hours, rinse again, and soak again. Again my millet didnt sprout but buckwheat and quinoa did. I kilned it for what must have been 8 hours on 170 degrees which is the lowest my oven goes. Then after kilning it I roasted it starting at 250 and bumping it up every 20 mins or so to my desired color which is a light brown.

It is really amazing that when I first started to kiln, it made the house smell like plants. But after a while it became a nice sweet smelling grain which leads me to believe I will get some fermentable sugars out of it. I am going to use it as a specialty grain first and see what that brings. Then if a success I will try and all grain batch.

dorklord 04-27-2011 06:06 PM

My quinoa apparently wasn't sprouted, which may be the difference. I've got some more to try, hopefully that will work better.

But, honestly, I've had such good luck with buckwheat, that right now I'm just running with that.

andrewdell19 04-27-2011 06:28 PM

Nice! I am excited about using buckwheat adn quinoa for the first time as a fermentable sugar. I have used buckwheat before but just roasting and steeping the grain without getting it to sprout. Now just need a bigger setup for malting!!!

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