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MattHollingsworth · 12-27-2012, 09:10 AM

That link to yeastcalc.com is great. I've used Mr Malty for a long time, but with older yeasts, have to use multiple steps. It's great for that. I had been just dividing it, so if Mr Malty said I need a 4 liter starter on a stirplate, I would make two 2 liter starters. Using yeastcalc.com, I can see that it wouldn't be necessary to make quite so much and can save a little $ on DME, which is not so easy to get where I live.

So, thanks for the link.

pabloj13 · 12-27-2012, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattHollingsworth

That link to yeastcalc.com is great. I've used Mr Malty for a long time, but with older yeasts, have to use multiple steps. It's great for that. I had been just dividing it, so if Mr Malty said I need a 4 liter starter on a stirplate, I would make two 2 liter starters. Using yeastcalc.com, I can see that it wouldn't be necessary to make quite so much and can save a little $ on DME, which is not so easy to get where I live.

So, thanks for the link.

WoodlandBrew · 12-27-2012, 12:06 PM

The pitch rate that Mr. Malty uses is one that has been tried and true for years. In that respect it is spot on.

The starter cell count estimator is just an estimate, but a pretty good one.

If you don't have a microscope it will get your cell count close enough to make good beer. It's way better than just pitching a vial and hoping for the best.

The viability by date is very conservative in my experience. Here is data on cell counts:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/refrigeration-effects-on-yeast-viability.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by aiptasia

I use it and find it pretty accurate. I do use the date feature. That being said, sometimes I get in a rush and can't always do a starter.

By "accurate" do you mean that you did cell counts and found that it was actually accurate, or do you just mean that your beer came out well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by pabloj13

Always use date/viability. Always have success. Is it conservative? Maybe. Does it work every time? Absolutely.

If you use the viability by date, you are going to be over pitching most of the time, but that's better than under pitching in most cases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomebrewMTB

If you don't like the results with Mr. Malty, You could try yeastcalc.com instead.

Mr. Malty and Yeast Calc provide two ways to look at the same information. I asked the developer what he used for equations and he said that he uses the same equations as Mr. Malty.

tgmartin000 · 12-27-2012, 02:28 PM

I love Jamal, but for this, I prefer yeastcalc.com.

Also - how do you estimate the production date for white labs yeast, since there's only a "use within 6 months" date? Sorry for the threadjack.

MattHollingsworth · 12-27-2012, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tgmartin000

I love Jamal, but for this, I prefer yeastcalc.com.

Also - how do you estimate the production date for white labs yeast, since there's only a "use within 6 months" date? Sorry for the threadjack.

They're date marked 4 months after packaging. Should say so right on the vial if my memory is correct.

**bad67z** · 12-27-2012, 04:53 PM

I have used Mr. Malty almost from the beginning of my 4 years of brewing. After my second brew I started using liquid yeast and shortly thereafter bought a stir plate, an o2 cylinder and began to making starters.

I have no hard scientific data to support my findings. But I can say with each pitching rate "improvement" I made to my brewing process there was a noticeable improvement in my finished product.

As for Mr. Malty overall , I have never found the recommendations to be out of line or have any adverse effect on my beer. If anything along with temperature control I would have to say it helped me make the biggest quality gain I have had since I started.

The way I see it IMHO, it is a free site/service provided by Jamil Zainasheff, one of the most award winning homebrewers now turned pro and Chris White Ph.D Bio Chem., the president of one of the two most successful yeast labs in the world. They have an abundance of data to support their recommendations. I'm an industrial sales guy trying t make the best beer I can on the weekends who am I to question their recommendations?

WoodlandBrew · 12-27-2012, 05:07 PM

I hope no one is getting me wrong with my stance on this. I think the yeast calculators are great. And for the most part they make people's beer better. I've had a Saison turn out weak in flavor because the slurry estimator had me pitch 20 times more cells than I needed, but other than that, it's been good to me.

What bothers me a little is that some people seem to miss is that it is an estimator and treat the numbers it produces as gospel.

Although Dr. Chris White and Jamil Zainasheff have an enormous amount of resources, the calculator is based on 6 data points.

And that's fine with me. It is free and they can't spend all their resources on something that has no return.

It's probably good within a factor of two for non-aerated starters produced with 1.039 worts of volumes from 500ml to 8000ml inoculated with 100 billion cells, because that's what it was developed with. It probably follows to similar inoculation rates, but likely breaks down to some degree as it is stretched.

The estimator will get you close, and that's a good thing.

kevinb · 12-31-2012, 08:26 PM

Thanks for posting this. I am a relative brewing noob and noticed that Mr. Matly was higher than others. I am making my first start now (yes, see the previous noob comment). Mr Malty sire recommended a 1.7 liter starter, and the calculator on the Wyeast site says 1 liter is plenty. I am in no way saying one is better than the other, just thought I would share the data point since I had the same question.

Gotta go, time to pitch my first starter into a dark mild. Wish me luck!