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Old 01-10-2013, 03:50 PM   #1711
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thanks.

mrmalty site says 10% viable;
yeastcalc says 45% viable.

That is a big difference. Is this just a wild a** guess, or what?
I've never seen that big of a differential. They both use either the same, or a very similar formula in their calculations. I'm guessing you entered a different production date on one than the other.

I just went and put in 5/1/2012 for production date on both sites and both gave me 10% viability.



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Old 01-10-2013, 04:55 PM   #1712
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Jukas, I used the "Repitching from Slurry" tab on Mr. Malty. My dates were both 10/27/2012. Otherwise, I used default values.



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Old 01-10-2013, 05:55 PM   #1713
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Jukas, I used the "Repitching from Slurry" tab on Mr. Malty. My dates were both 10/27/2012. Otherwise, I used default values.
Harvested slurry loses viability faster than professionally-packaged liquid yeast. Yeastcalc corresponds to the latter.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:25 PM   #1714
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Harvested slurry loses viability faster than professionally-packaged liquid yeast. Yeastcalc corresponds to the latter.
I think Jamil's calc's on viability on the harvested slurry tab is overly aggressive. Without the ability to do actual cell counting & viability staining the best we can do is make educated guesses based on assumed data points.

People who have done cell counting and viability tests have found that washed yeast loses far less than the 2% a day that Mr. Malty suggests.

http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/2012/12/refrigeration-effects-on-yeast-viability.html

Since I don't have a microscope to do cell counting, I have to just kind of 'best guess' wing it so I either use the viability estimate from yeastcalc as a starting point if it's a slurry less than 2 months old. If it's an older slurry, I make a small starter (300ml) and add my 20ml of thick slurry (I store washed yeast in baby food jars) and let it run to competition. Then I use Chris White's formula of 200m cells per mL saturation point to estimate my starting cell count and use that to figure out the size of starters I need to step up to.

I've stopped washing yeast however and moved to slants as it offers me better long term storage (plus my wife doesn't like 20+ jars of yeast in the fridge) and is easier to re-slant or plate out and pull pure cultures. Once I exhaust my current supply of washed yeast I'll solely use slants/plates and conical harvest if I'm going to rebrew within 10-14 days.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:35 PM   #1715
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I think Jamil's calc's on viability on the harvested slurry tab is overly aggressive. Without the ability to do actual cell counting & viability staining the best we can do is make educated guesses based on assumed data points.
Could well be. I'm sure it's based on careful testing, but without some details on the assumptions it's making, it's hard to know whether it's applicable or not. Given his admonitions to stick with yeast that's > 90% viable, I suspect that getting super accurate estimates for months of storage wasn't a major goal.

Regardless of all that, this is the reason that the two calculators disagreed---they were calculating different things. I won't argue that MrMalty is accurate, but I do expect that a WLP vial has better storage characteristics than a mason jar slurry.
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Old 01-14-2013, 10:17 PM   #1716
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Darn, darn, darn, I wish I would have seen this post before I just racked my Irish Stout to a secondary and dumped out the cake in the primary today

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Old 01-15-2013, 12:54 PM   #1717
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Just to chime in on using old washed yeast again. I brewed EdWort's Robust Porter this past weekend (1/11/13) and pitched using Notty that I washed on 2/24/12 (10.5 months old for those playing along at home).

I made a 1cup starter using 1oz of DME the morning before brew day just to wake the little guys up a bit. Decanted the liquid from my mason jat and threw my starter right into the same jar, and gave it a shake every few hours.

Fermentation started about 36 hours after pitching, and went strong for another 36 hours or so before tapering off. At this point I'm assuming the beer will turn out fine, as it acted just like every other beer I've ever brewed. So for whatever it is worth, Notty in certain conditions will definitely be viable after 10.5 months.

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Old 01-15-2013, 08:55 PM   #1718
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Originally Posted by LowNotes
Just to chime in on using old washed yeast again. I brewed EdWort's Robust Porter this past weekend (1/11/13) and pitched using Notty that I washed on 2/24/12 (10.5 months old for those playing along at home).

I made a 1cup starter using 1oz of DME the morning before brew day just to wake the little guys up a bit. Decanted the liquid from my mason jat and threw my starter right into the same jar, and gave it a shake every few hours.

Fermentation started about 36 hours after pitching, and went strong for another 36 hours or so before tapering off. At this point I'm assuming the beer will turn out fine, as it acted just like every other beer I've ever brewed. So for whatever it is worth, Notty in certain conditions will definitely be viable after 10.5 months.
I have found that all yeast will last longer than several people expect them to when proper steps are taken.

All yeast will lose viability over time, and as a result you will have some dead cells in your washed yeast jars, and some of the sacc might need a little bit of extra time to wake up. Plan your brew day out in advance, give yourself enough time to put together a proper starter AND have a back up plan in the off case that your yeast does not start back up (either another jar of washed yeast to start, or enough time to get to your LHBS and buy fresh yeast). If your starter takes off and starts eating/breathing, it will do the same in your beer and you should have some good results.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:21 AM   #1719
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I have found that all yeast will last longer than several people expect them to when proper steps are taken.

All yeast will lose viability over time, and as a result you will have some dead cells in your washed yeast jars, and some of the sacc might need a little bit of extra time to wake up. Plan your brew day out in advance, give yourself enough time to put together a proper starter AND have a back up plan in the off case that your yeast does not start back up (either another jar of washed yeast to start, or enough time to get to your LHBS and buy fresh yeast). If your starter takes off and starts eating/breathing, it will do the same in your beer and you should have some good results.
Could not agree more with the back-up plan. I keep a brand new packet of S-05 and Notty (I use those for almost all my beer so far) in the fridge just-in-case nothing happens after 2-4 days. My biggest fear is having a perfectedly made bucket of wort go to waste because I was too cheap to buy new yeast each batch.

So far so good though!
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Old 01-16-2013, 01:29 PM   #1720
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I keep a brand new packet of S-05 and Notty (I use those for almost all my beer so far)
Even if you use other yeasts, in terms of having back-ups, those are pretty good choices. They're reasonably neutral, so there aren't many beers that they wouldn't work at least reasonably well in. You might not get quite what you'd intended, but you don't have to stock a library of backup options.


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