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**jetmac** · 08-12-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Onlooker

But the OP said a quart, not half.

My bad

**NordeastBrewer77** · 08-12-2012, 03:09 PM

I'm lost. When I make starters, I fully ferment them and then fridge to drop the yeast before decanting and pitching. I think the OP was concerned about leaving the finished starter in the fridge too long before use, which in his case was a matter of days. Had it been me (and actually, I have two starters finished, in the beer fridge, that won't get use til next weekend), I'd simply pitch the starters on brew day, the yeast'll wake up n get going when they hit the fermenter.
Jetmac, I think we're looking at starters differently, seems that you make starters to get the yeast going and pitch active yeast, right. I make them to grow up the right population for the batch I'm brewing, I'm not concerned about pitching already active yeast, and seldom pitch an active, full starter.

ArcLight · 08-12-2012, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetmac

That size starter is used mainly to "wake up" the yeast so they are ready to work. The yeast won't replicate much, if at all. Typically you would make this size only 5-6 hours prior to brewing. So making it on Wed for a Friday brew is not really correct. That being said, to answer your question, it will be fine. Stick it in the fridge. On Sunday, take out of fridge and warm to room temp, mix up another batch of starter wort , 5-6 hours prior to needing the starter, decant most of the liquid and leave a bit to swirl and break up the yeast cake and pour the new starter wort on the yeast.

Now, if you want to make a starter to grow yeast, mix up a 2L starter wort, decant the starter you already made and pour the 2L starter on the yeast 12-16 hours prior to needing it.

Make sense?

I don't think this is correct.

The primary purpose of a starter is not to wake up yeast, its to increase the number of yeast. Frequently the number of yeast in a packet is 100Billion or less, and optimally double that amount is needed. Hence the yeast starter.

As for how long to let the starter ferment - there are 2 schools of thought - high Krausen (18 hours later) - or let it ferment out (5 days) refrigerate for a couple of days, decant and pour it in the wort on Brew Day.

read Yeast by Chris White p 133.

Also - the OP made close to a 1 liter starter (1 quart + the DME will be more than a quart). Thats the correct size for his intentions.

**jetmac** · 08-12-2012, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NordeastBrewer77

the yeast'll wake up n get going when they hit the fermenter.

It is better to pitch yeast that are active for a quicker start and less chance of off-flavors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NordeastBrewer77

Jetmac, I think we're looking at starters differently, seems that you make starters to get the yeast going and pitch active yeast, right. I make them to grow up the right population for the batch I'm brewing, I'm not concerned about pitching already active yeast, and seldom pitch an active, full starter.

Actually I combine the two. I always make a starter with liquid yeast. I can buy 1 vial or smack pack and increase the cell count to save money. (Even if I bought enough for the correct cell count I would still make a small starter) When I am ready to pitch, I am either pitching during an active step up or I'm satisfied with the cell count and I have made the starter to wake up the yeast. A small .5L starter.

**NordeastBrewer77** · 08-12-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetmac

It is better to pitch yeast that are active for a quicker start and less chance of off-flavors.

Actually I combine the two. I always make a starter with liquid yeast. I can buy 1 vial or smack pack and increase the cell count to save money. (Even if I bought enough for the correct cell count I would still make a small starter) When I am ready to pitch, I am either pitching during an active step up or I'm satisfied with the cell count and I have made the starter to wake up the yeast. A small .5L starter.

Personally, I've never noticed a difference between pitching active yeast and inactive yeast, assuming that the cell count is appropriate. In fact, the last time I pitched an active starter, at high krausen, I had an abnormally long lag time, like 12+ hours.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that it's far more important to focus on cell count and not active yeast. Regardless of activity, the yeast you pitch are going to go into a lag/reproductive phase again after pitching and before becoming visibly active in the wort. I'd much rather pitch the proper amount of dormant slurry than pitch the same amount of active yeast with starter 'beer' included.
FWIW, I've never noticed any yeast derived 'off flavors' from pitching inactive slurry.

**jetmac** · 08-12-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArcLight

I don't think this is correct.

The primary purpose of a starter is not to wake up yeast, its to increase the number of yeast.

Actually there are 2 reasons to make a starter. 1) to wake the yeast up when the yeast are dormant and you have the correct cell count 2) to increase cell count

**NordeastBrewer77** · 08-12-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetmac

Actually there are 2 reasons to make a starter. 1) to wake the yeast up when the yeast are dormant and you have the correct cell count 2) to increase cell count

Actually, it's to produce enough yeast. Regardless of cell count, yeast will wake up when you pitch them into your beer. However, if you don't pitch enough, they may be pi$$ed and wake up to make bad beer.

Sulli · 08-12-2012, 04:20 PM

My .02¢ for reasons to make a starter:

1) Improve the overall health of the yeast.

2) Increase cell count.

**NordeastBrewer77** · 08-12-2012, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sulli

My .02¢ for reasons to make a starter:

1) Improve the overall health of the yeast.

2) Increase cell count.

This has me thinking about why we all make starters. I make them to increase cell count and ensure viability (if using WLP), and pay little attention to whether or not they're active on brew day. Hell, I use dry yeast a ton, half the time w/o rehydrating, and dry yeast is as dormant as can be until it gets some sugar to eat.
Methinks I'll make a poll and see why others make their starters.......

Made a poll here.

Sulli · 08-12-2012, 04:46 PM

I feel the main reason to make a starter is to ensure that you have healthy yeast. I don't pitch at "high krausen" either, but making a starter gives me some consistency. I like what George Fix has to say about consistency:

"Consistent methods = consistent excellence."

Having the appropriate cell count is important, but if your yeast is not healthy your not going to get a healthy ferment, regardless of how many yeast cells you throw in your wort.