Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Yeast starter for high gravity beer
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-03-2009, 11:13 PM   #1
tlsmart1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Winona, MN
Posts: 15
Default Yeast starter for high gravity beer

I'm planning to brew a 1.080 OG ale and would like to make a yeast starter. The Mr. Malty Pitching Calculator suggests 2.66 liters of starter if I intermittently shake it. But I'm confused about how to make this volume of starter.

"How to Brew" suggests making starters with 0.5 quart of water and 0.5 cup DME. It goes on to say, "(t)he starter process may be repeated several times to provide more yeast to ensure an even stronger fermentation." I assume that he doesn't mean pitching a packet of yeast into each starter when repeating the process - does he mean making more wort and adding to the starter after it has fermented for a while? Also, to get to 2.66 liters I'd have to make 5 or six starters using this repeated process - doesn't make sense. Do I make 3 liters of wort in the beginning, pitch the yeast into 1 liter, and and a liter per day the next 2 days? Or do I make a 3 liter starter and throw in a single yeast packet right off the bat? Or is there something else that I'm missing?

Thanks

__________________
tlsmart1 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:17 PM   #2
TipsyDragon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 2,607
Liked 21 Times on 19 Posts

Default

save the head ache just pitch 2 vials of liquid yeast. one should be enough two is more than enough.

__________________
TipsyDragon is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:24 PM   #3
tlsmart1
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Winona, MN
Posts: 15
Default

Even though Mr. Malty says 3 packs are necessary? Also, if 1 is enough then can I conclude that I could make a starter with a single pack the way Palmer suggests (without repeating) and assume that would be plenty?

__________________
tlsmart1 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:27 PM   #4
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,061
Liked 4472 Times on 3254 Posts
Likes Given: 870

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tlsmart1 View Post
Even though Mr. Malty says 3 packs are necessary? Also, if 1 is enough then can I conclude that I could make a starter with a single pack the way Palmer suggests (without repeating) and assume that would be plenty?
Yes, if you start with a smaller starter and "step up" by adding fresh wort, you will have enough yeast for your 1.080 ale.

You can start with the larger volume, but many of us start small, about a week before brewday. After the first wort is fermented out, you can add the second fresh wort. After that is fermented out, you can step it up again, until you are at the right quantity. You want to make sure you have a large quanitity of healthy yeast for a bigger beer like that.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:36 PM   #5
TipsyDragon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: California
Posts: 2,607
Liked 21 Times on 19 Posts

Default

liquid yeast vials have more yeast in them than a dry yeast packet and you don't have to rehydrate them.

but listen to YooperBrew he's right as well.

__________________
TipsyDragon is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:39 PM   #6
Zen_Brew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,921
Liked 22 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

A 1.080 beer is going to do much better with a correctly sized starter. There are a couple ways to accomplish this with a smaller sized starter. I'm going to assume you have a 2000ml flask, or access to 1/2 gallon growlers as you didn't state what you would be using.

The first way is to make a starter and let it complete. You can then add more wort to bring it up to your desired final volume and repeat the process. The problem here looks to be that you do not have a vessel large enough for 2.6 liters. You could also split the first starter at this point into two vessels and add wort to both to grow a larger colony.

The next deviation is after the first starter is complete you can refrigerate to get the yeast to flocculate out then decant the beer. Move about 2/3 to 3/4 of the yeast from this starter to a sterile mason jar or other vessel and refrigerate, then pith the remaining yeast into another starter. when the second starter is done refrigerate and decant as well. Then use both in the beeer. This process obviously will take you several days.

If you are strapped for time, the way I would recommend is to get two starter vessels at once. You can use 1/2 gallon growlers, or even well sanitized 1/2 gallon milk jugs. Split your yeast vial into both vessels and make two 1.3 liter-ish starters simultaneously, each with 1/2 the vial of yeast. The yeast will have a bit more stress making the larger starter, but not enough to worry about. I have made 1.2 liter starters from 1/2 a vial before with no ill effects.

The final thing you could do if you if you are concerned with growing the starter with 1/2 a vial is to buy two vials of yeast and make two starters as described above.

You'll get the best results with a starter near the Mr Malty recommended size.

__________________
Primary: German Hef, Belgian IPA, Scottish 80, Belgian Dubbel
On Tap: Oatmeal Stout, Vanilla Oatmeal Stout, Belgian Dark Strong, Munich Dunkel, Dunkel Weizen, Oktoberfest, Bock, IPA, Black IPA, English IPA, Pale Ale

Using the mind to look for reality is delusion. Using your senses to look for reality is awareness.

"One time I was so desperate for a beer I snuck into the football stadium and ate the dirt under the bleachers." Homer Simpson

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Hoppiness

Last edited by Zen_Brew; 11-03-2009 at 11:42 PM.
Zen_Brew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:39 PM   #7
Brew-boy
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Brew-boy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lapeer, Michigan
Posts: 2,415
Liked 13 Times on 10 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

With each step up and more handling you do the greater the risk of possible problems, like infections and cross contamination. I would rather see 2 vials pitched into a a larger starter and then have the right amount one time done.

__________________
Next:Smoked Pilsner.
Primary:Belgian Red, American Stout w/Roeselare
On Tap:Pale Ale, English Bitter
Aging: Imperial Oatmeal Stout on Vanilla beans.

I rather owe you a dollar than cheat you out of it.."Dad"

http://lapeerareabrewers.com/

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LapeerAreaBrewers/
Brew-boy is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:41 PM   #8
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,061
Liked 4472 Times on 3254 Posts
Likes Given: 870

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TipsyDragon View Post
liquid yeast vials have more yeast in them than a dry yeast packet and you don't have to rehydrate them.

but listen to YooperBrew he's right as well.
Thanks for the vote of confidence Tipsy. but psssst- I'm a girl!

Actually that's backwards- there are more yeast cells in a package of 11 gm dry yeast than in a package of liquid yeast. The liquid yeast have on average 100 million cells. Even Wyeast's website tells you to make a starter for anything over 1.060 OG, and recommends it other times (like lagers, or when you want to decrease lag time).
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:43 PM   #9
Zen_Brew
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,921
Liked 22 Times on 22 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TipsyDragon View Post

but listen to YooperBrew he's right as well.
He sure is, he's kinda cute too.
__________________
Primary: German Hef, Belgian IPA, Scottish 80, Belgian Dubbel
On Tap: Oatmeal Stout, Vanilla Oatmeal Stout, Belgian Dark Strong, Munich Dunkel, Dunkel Weizen, Oktoberfest, Bock, IPA, Black IPA, English IPA, Pale Ale

Using the mind to look for reality is delusion. Using your senses to look for reality is awareness.

"One time I was so desperate for a beer I snuck into the football stadium and ate the dirt under the bleachers." Homer Simpson

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Hoppiness
Zen_Brew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-03-2009, 11:46 PM   #10
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 61,061
Liked 4472 Times on 3254 Posts
Likes Given: 870

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen_Brew View Post
He sure is, he's kinda cute too.
I'm sorry. That's funny. I know it's but it sure is funny!
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Trying to brew a super high gravity beer with white labs yeast... kingbb69 Extract Brewing 12 12-05-2009 03:59 PM
Re-using Yeast from high gravity beer jiffybrew General Techniques 8 02-26-2009 04:26 PM
yeast for a high gravity beer xjsweeney Extract Brewing 7 02-08-2008 02:37 PM
High Gravity Yeast BarleyWater Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 3 02-15-2007 06:30 AM
What happens to a high gravity beer if you don't add champagne yeast? hoffmeister Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 19 04-18-2006 04:40 PM