Wyeast 3724 Belgian Saison First Timer

I am thinking of tossing Wyeast 3724 into a belgian ale of sorts and am a little concerned about this "touchy" yeast strain.

I don't have the ability to maintain a constant 80-90 degrees but I can easily maintain 66-72 degrees and I am wondering if this is just far to cool for this yeast? I don't care if it takes 3 months to finish so long as it tastes good and finishes dry!

I have a few other strains available and if this one is just not going to work I will switch

the published temperature range is 70-95F -- the higher end of the scale gives more yeast character to the beer. it will be cleaner at the low end, but it should finish...eventually. it's summertime, you might just try fermenting outside...although i think north dakota probably has some wild temperature swings at night

If you ferment on the cool side with that yeast your beer may not dry out the way it should resulting in a high final gravity.

In ND we will be 80-90 during the day and upper sixties at night. I suppose I could ferment in the garage...that may help a bit. Just hate to go through all the trouble and then have a stuck ferment, but the final result with this yeast strain sounds excellent!

I have never tried feremting with that yeast at those temps. I always get the temp up to the 80's or 90ish. It always finishes low at those temps.

An easy way to keep your brew at those temps is to pit your fermenter in a large cooler or something else that will hold water, fill it up with water and then use an aquarium heater to keep the temps up. Works great and no temp fluctuations.

I use this one...

http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/pro-heaters.htm

The 150 watt version.

If you cannot get the temps that high I would suggest using 3711. That yeast is not so tempermental and will always finish low even at lower temps.

If you do get an aquarium heater, just make sure that it will get to the temps you want. Some do not go that high.

I vote for the garage. You can still put the bucket in an igloo cooler of water if you're worried about temp swings. If it gets stuck around 1.020, you can just add the clean, high-attenuating yeast of your choice. The saison flavor will still be there. I just bottled a saison that I fermented in my garage when the temps were over 100F outside.

I bought an electric blanket at Wal-mart on clearance ($25, down from $60 since it's summer and all)

Wrapped it loosely around my bucket and it kept it at a nice 78f the whole time. That was on setting 2 (of 10). Of course the damn thing shuts off after 10 hours, but that's enough time if you reset it before you go to work and before you go to sleep. Aquarium heater in a bucket of water works pretty good too, but mine was a 200 watt and could only maintain about 74f.

Electric blanket = awesome.

kingwood-kid said:

I vote for the garage. You can still put the bucket in an igloo cooler of water if you're worried about temp swings. If it gets stuck around 1.020, you can just add the clean, high-attenuating yeast of your choice. The saison flavor will still be there. I just bottled a saison that I fermented in my garage when the temps were over 100F outside.

Click to expand...

This is the best course of action without spending $ on different equipments

"In ND we will be 80-90 during the day and upper sixties at night."
You want to reduce the dgree of temp swings as much as possible - if you can keep the temp consistent at the lower end, go for it

I am going to rock the garage, it has been above 80 degrees for a very long time in my garage. I have a 3500 ML starter on the stir plate that I pitched a smack pack into.

Going with a 10 gallon batch of this stuff.....I loaded the end of the boil up with glacier and cascade

permo said:

I am going to rock the garage, it has been above 80 degrees for a very long time in my garage. I have a 3500 ML starter on the stir plate that I pitched a smack pack into.

Going with a 10 gallon batch of this stuff.....I loaded the end of the boil up with glacier and cascade

Click to expand...

cool, let us know how it comes out! when you get stuck at 1.020, just wait it out for a total of 3 or 4 weeks (or finish off with something like 1056)

I also figure that if I pitch an active starter I have better odds of the beer finishing properly. I am hoping things will be just fine ....fingers crossed!

I am really looking forward to the esther profile of this yeast....the description even mentioned bubblegum

My saison on this yeast just hit a wall at 1.030 (OG ~ 1.060). It's only been going 5 days, so no worries of course. But it was rocking for 2 days then not a burp from the airlock. So I took a hydro sample yesterday to see what's up in there. Man, I've got to tell you that sample tasted great, and I never drink those.

I've got it sitting outside, covered. No problem maintaining 85F down here. I'm going to check periodically over the next 3 or 4 weeks. If it does seem to be finished, I'm going to pitch some 3711.

I made a 3L starter with a new yeast smackpack. Didn't bother to decant the starter (I normally do).

I oxygenated well too (air pump for about 2 minutes).

passedpawn said:

My saison on this yeast just hit a wall at 1.030 (OG ~ 1.060). It's only been going 5 days, so no worries of course. But it was rocking for 2 days then not a burp from the airlock. So I took a hydro sample yesterday to see what's up in there. Man, I've got to tell you that sample tasted great, and I never drink those.

I've got it sitting outside, covered. No problem maintaining 85F down here. I'm going to check periodically over the next 3 or 4 weeks. If it does seem to be finished, I'm going to pitch some 3711.

I made a 3L starter with a new yeast smackpack. Didn't bother to decant the starter (I normally do).

I oxygenated well too (air pump for about 2 minutes).

Click to expand...

I was listening to The Brewing Network the other day. They were talking about a talk that Neva Parker from White Labs gave at the NHC. Apparently the Belgian Saison strains is oxygen hungry, and if it doesn't get enough it can have problems attenuating. Based on the oxygen level results for air pumps in the Yeast book, you may have under oxygenated.

Use it. It's okay at lower temperatures, say low 70's. Have patience and wait it out, it will finish.

afr0byte said:

I was listening to The Brewing Network the other day. They were talking about a talk that Neva Parker from White Labs gave at the NHC. Apparently the Belgian Saison strains is oxygen hungry, and if it doesn't get enough it can have problems attenuating. Based on the oxygen level results for air pumps in the Yeast book, you may have under oxygenated.

Click to expand...

Thanks. Based on that, I'm going to 1) dump some more oxygen in there, and 2) get the Yeast book. Thanks!

Once active fermentation has started, I would not add O2. Unless 'Cardboard Saison' sounds pleasant to you?

The lag (growth) phase has ended and adding oxygen will not help. On some high gravity beers you can consider adding another round of O2 10-12 hours after pitching, but that's not the case here.

stubbornman said:

Once active fermentation has started, I would not add O2. Unless 'Cardboard Saison' sounds pleasant to you?

The lag (growth) phase has ended and adding oxygen will not help. On some high gravity beers you can consider adding another round of O2 10-12 hours after pitching, but that's not the case here.

Click to expand...

Agreed. I didn't mean to say he should add more oxygen now.

passedpawn said:

Thanks. Based on that, I'm going to 1) dump some more oxygen in there, and 2) get the Yeast book. Thanks!

Click to expand...

I wouldn't add more oxygen now. I just meant that you probably didn't add enough to begin with. According to the Yeast book an aquarium pump isn't all that effective, especially if you only do it for 2 minutes.

afr0byte said:

I wouldn't add more oxygen now. I just meant that you probably didn't add enough to begin with. According to the Yeast book an aquarium pump isn't all that effective, especially if you only do it for 2 minutes.

Click to expand...

Actually it's not an aquarium pump, it's a pump designed for medical equipment. I build a box around it with a hepa filter on the input to make sure I wasn't blowing airborn stuff in there. It foams up the wort quite a bit.

passedpawn said:

Actually it's not an aquarium pump, it's a pump designed for medical equipment. I build a box around it with a hepa filter on the input to make sure I wasn't blowing airborn stuff in there. It foams up the wort quite a bit.

Click to expand...

Regarding the pump. I believe the idea is that any pump that's using air, instead of pure O2, is going to have similar problems getting enough O2 in there. I don't have my Yeast book with me at the moment. They also did it more than 2 minutes (15 I think) in the book.

Regarding adding more O2..well, you can add more O2 if you want. I don't know what good it'll do now, though.

Also, this post might be of interest: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/wyeast-aquarium-pumps-264864/ ... Apparently Wyeast says 5 minutes is required with an aquarium pump. Granted they don't mention a flow rate or anything.

I made the following brew

11 gallons to fermenter
16 pounds vienna
2 pounds 10 oz oats
2 pounds 12 oz clean candi sugar
1.4 oz magnum @ 60
1 oz glacier at 15
1.5 oz glacier flameout
1 oz summit whirlpool @180 degrees (shooting for orange/fruit aroma/flavor)
mashed overnight at 149 degrees
OG = 1.057
FG = 1.007 or less (I hope)

Chilled wort to 75 degrees and I pitched the entire 3 liter starter directly off of the stir plate and set the fermenter in my garage at 83 degrees. Within 2 hours I had signs of fermetation and after 5 hours it was full blown. Now, about 20 hours later we are still cruising along.

Just checked the fermenter again. with an OG of 1.057 and how crazily this thing has been ferementing for 24 hours, I am quite sure it is below 1.035, so hopefully it keeps on trucking! I must say, that the smell from airlock is amazing. Juicy fruit gum is what it smells like. There is so much CO2 escaping through the airlock that the little bubbler plastic piece doesn't even fall down. Just constant C02 rushing out.

Good show! That's the beauty of a big, healthy pitch of yeast

after 48 hours it is still a churning, bubbling concoction. I have noticed that that smell from the airlock has become, much more intense and fruity in the last 12 hours or so. The garage has not fell below 80 degrees this entire time so apparently this yeast likes it warm.

here is a question, is it possible for a saison style beer to be too dry?

here is a question, is it possible for a saison style beer to be too dry?

Click to expand...

here is an answer......No

sounds like this is going to be a great saison! let us know how it finished out

Clearly this brew is finishing out just fine, as it is still bubbling and churning away. I am expecting crazy attenuation.

Here is my question for folks that have some experience with this strain. Would I be completely crazy to throw a 1.090 golden strong ale on the yeast cake? 85 percent malt (blend of pilsen, vienna, oats and rye), 15 percent inverted sugar, mash low, mash long and let it ride!

permo said:

Clearly this brew is finishing out just fine, as it is still bubbling and churning away. I am expecting crazy attenuation.

Here is my question for folks that have some experience with this strain. Would I be completely crazy to throw a 1.090 golden strong ale on the yeast cake? 85 percent malt (blend of pilsen, vienna, oats and rye), 15 percent inverted sugar, mash low, mash long and let it ride!

Click to expand...

I am no expert on the matter but I would think that would be fine given the saison had an OG of 1057. But I would also think that your GSA will taste like a saison. Not that that's a bad thing...

I did a saison with this yeast last summer and it took about a month to dry out all the way.

After 11 days fermenting, never once falling below 80 degrees, the original gravity was 1.057 and I just measured 1.002, however the temperature of the beer/wort is 87 degrees. Adjust that up to 1.005............AWESOME!

The best part is the flavor, the sample was flat and warm, but the aroma is of fruit, earth and spice. The flavor hits with sourness and delicious spicy fruit. Not bitter, not hot, just complex...very complex. What a yeast......i am speechless.

I am surely going to pitch a HUGE golden ale on this yeast cake, what a flavor! I have a feeling that this is one of those yeasts where if you give it oxygen, give it high temps and give it simple sugars that the sky is the limit for both flavor and ABV. hops...stay out of the way..for bitterness only.

I now have this beer on tap, I will say that this yeast strain, when properly fermented, takes a very simple grain bill and hop schedule and makes and insanely profound ale.

I have NEVER experienced a yeast strain that creates the subtle sourness, spiciness and fruitiness that that this strain creates while making a very digestable ale.


To put things simply.....you must try this yeast.

permo said:

I now have this beer on tap, I will say that this yeast strain, when properly fermented, takes a very simple grain bill and hop schedule and makes and insanely profound ale.

I have NEVER experienced a yeast strain that creates the subtle sourness, spiciness and fruitiness that that this strain creates while making a very digestable ale.


To put things simply.....you must try this yeast.

Click to expand...

I agree. I can't believe the flavor that this yeast creates from a simple grain bill. In fact, it's too much and I need to tame the fermentation temps next time. It's got so much tropical fruit flavor. Wow. I fermented at 90F, but next time it's coming inside for closer to 75F. BTW, I finished with 3711.