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Old 02-01-2013, 05:07 PM   #641
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Think I may transfer to secondary soon, since I don't want bottle bombs.
transferring to secondary won't prevent bottle bombs. if there are sugars in there that the yeast can still eat, they will eat them. going to secondary will decrease the yeast population so it'll take longer... but they'll get to it eventually. so if you transfer, you're increasing the chances that there will be sugars left in there when you bottle - and increasing your chances of bottle bombs, unless you secondary for a really long time. hence, you shouldn't go to secondary until primary fermentation is complete.

just because it's bubbling doesn't necessarily mean that fermentation is still happening. the beer could be off-gassing, reacting to changes in temps or atmospheric pressure, etc. have you taken gravity readings recently?
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Old 05-16-2013, 09:27 PM   #642
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Default Best method to pitch 3711 after 3724 primary ferment?

So many 3711 posts and threads -- hopefully this is a reasonable place to post this.

I'm brewing a rye saison tomorrow and plan is to separate 10 gallons of wort to two carboys, pitching a 3724 starter into one and a 3711 starter into the other. I've got good temp control, so was going to start at 68F for a couple of days then ratchet it up to 77F or so over the next several days.

From the many posts on this, I'm expecting the 3724 batch to slow down at around 1.020, and like the idea of re-activating it with some 3711 after the initial fermentation. Which brings me to my question: what's the best method to do this? Few options I considered:

1) Pitch a brand new smack pack of 3711 -- seems kind of wasteful considering the active carboy of 3711 already going (ruled this out)

2) Rack the carboy of 3711 to a new carboy after a week and transfer the 3724 batch onto the 3711 yeast cake. Just wondering if that's rushing the 3711 batch for yeast to clean up?

3) Would a wine thief sample from the 3711 batch have enough active yeast in suspension to inoculate the 3724 (let's say after first 48 hours)?

Other options to consider?

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Old 05-16-2013, 10:47 PM   #643
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You will be fine with option three and it's the least amount of work.

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Old 05-17-2013, 02:46 AM   #644
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Originally Posted by beekgeek View Post
So many 3711 posts and threads -- hopefully this is a reasonable place to post this.

I'm brewing a rye saison tomorrow and plan is to separate 10 gallons of wort to two carboys, pitching a 3724 starter into one and a 3711 starter into the other. I've got good temp control, so was going to start at 68F for a couple of days then ratchet it up to 77F or so over the next several days.

From the many posts on this, I'm expecting the 3724 batch to slow down at around 1.020, and like the idea of re-activating it with some 3711 after the initial fermentation. Which brings me to my question: what's the best method to do this? Few options I considered:

1) Pitch a brand new smack pack of 3711 -- seems kind of wasteful considering the active carboy of 3711 already going (ruled this out)

2) Rack the carboy of 3711 to a new carboy after a week and transfer the 3724 batch onto the 3711 yeast cake. Just wondering if that's rushing the 3711 batch for yeast to clean up?

3) Would a wine thief sample from the 3711 batch have enough active yeast in suspension to inoculate the 3724 (let's say after first 48 hours)?

Other options to consider?
I'd go #2. Might not be any better than 3, but you know a lot of this hobby is gut feel.
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Old 05-17-2013, 07:18 AM   #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beekgeek View Post
So many 3711 posts and threads -- hopefully this is a reasonable place to post this.

I'm brewing a rye saison tomorrow and plan is to separate 10 gallons of wort to two carboys, pitching a 3724 starter into one and a 3711 starter into the other. I've got good temp control, so was going to start at 68F for a couple of days then ratchet it up to 77F or so over the next several days.

From the many posts on this, I'm expecting the 3724 batch to slow down at around 1.020, and like the idea of re-activating it with some 3711 after the initial fermentation. Which brings me to my question: what's the best method to do this? Few options I considered:

1) Pitch a brand new smack pack of 3711 -- seems kind of wasteful considering the active carboy of 3711 already going (ruled this out)

2) Rack the carboy of 3711 to a new carboy after a week and transfer the 3724 batch onto the 3711 yeast cake. Just wondering if that's rushing the 3711 batch for yeast to clean up?

3) Would a wine thief sample from the 3711 batch have enough active yeast in suspension to inoculate the 3724 (let's say after first 48 hours)?

Other options to consider?
Option 4 would be to make the 3711 starter larger or save a bit and step it up with some of the wort from the brew. You could then use this step up starter to reinforce the 3724 if as you expect it stops at 1.020 .
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Old 05-17-2013, 10:49 AM   #646
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I've done option 3, I pulled maybe 8 ozs when fermentation appered to be at its peek and pitch it into a slowing/stopped batch that was pitched with T-58 dry yeast. It was at 1.018 when I decided to dose it with 3711 and it finish 1.010. I let go for another 10-14 days after I pitched the 3711.

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Old 05-17-2013, 02:18 PM   #647
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i would do a modified version of #2: don't wait a week, wait as long as it takes to get the 3724 to stall out. by then, the 3711 should have completed its fermentation. rack 3711 to another vessel, put 3724 on the 3711 cake. maybe it'll take a week, maybe it won't... i would get locked into a set schedule.

pitching an active starter of 3711, perhaps from cells saves from the initial pitch, is also a good idea.

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Fermenting: <as soon as this damn weather lets me brew...>
Drinking: imperial chocolate stout, oud bruin, gueuz'ish thing, BDSA
Aging: sour cherry mead, rye sour ECY20/ECY34 split, local sour cherry kriek & a several other sours, acerglyn
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:18 PM   #648
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Normally I would agree with the more effort necessary approaches. However last time I did this I only used a very small amount of 3711 pitched into the dupont strain. It dried out fine and tasted like dupont not 3711. Racking the dupont portion onto the 3711 cake is overkill and entirely unnecessary. Plus talk about a fairly significant flavor contribution with that much yeast, not from fermentation, but just liquid volume in the yeast culture.

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Old 05-17-2013, 04:41 PM   #649
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using the whole cake, while overkill, is indeed the easiest way (read: we're all lazy). the flavor contribution of the 3711 will be minimal since it won't be doing any reproduction. also, it will be pitched into a beer with a certain alcohol content... not the most hospitable enviro for yeast so better to go over than under.

you can cold-crash the 3711 and it will settle out just fine. my 3711 saison is crystal clear.

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Fermenting: <as soon as this damn weather lets me brew...>
Drinking: imperial chocolate stout, oud bruin, gueuz'ish thing, BDSA
Aging: sour cherry mead, rye sour ECY20/ECY34 split, local sour cherry kriek & a several other sours, acerglyn
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Old 05-17-2013, 04:50 PM   #650
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Some wine thief of the 3711 sounds like the easiest to me. Quick dunk/spray with sani, poke into 3711, wait a couple seconds, empty into dupont. How's racking it easier?

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