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Old 06-14-2012, 08:33 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennesseean_87 View Post
I wasn't saying that funk retention might increase with fermentation temps, but that funk level might. So if Saison A was fermented cool and enjoyed young, and Saison B fermented warm and aged several months, by that time the funk level might have faded some, but only to the point of a young Saison A. If Saison A were aged, it might get boring because the mellower funk would die out to nothing, as one poster mentioned above.

That was my hypothesis, anyway. I'm still interested in anyone's results.
Ahh, I misread then. In that case, yes, funk level goes up along with temperature, especially when it's young. Part of the reason I've conditioned the last couple batches for so long is because I wanted the funk level to subside, but I deliberately fermented them at whatever temp they wanted to reach. I like a yeast that encourages me to be lazy, and saisons are excellent for that!

And your hypothesis seems to reflect my own experiences; lately, if I'm using 3711, I know its funk will subside over time, so if I let it go crazy with the temperature, I can set the batch aside for a while until I free up some dispenser space.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:19 AM   #532
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Is there a consensus on this? Does everyone experience funky flavors decreasing in 3711 over time?

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Old 06-15-2012, 07:02 AM   #533
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I've had 5 gals on this (3711) since febuary.. do you think that's too long on the yeast cake? What do y'all think?

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Old 06-15-2012, 09:52 AM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2brew1cup
I've had 5 gals on this (3711) since febuary.. do you think that's too long on the yeast cake? What do y'all think?
Probably ok but I don't know if I'd leave it much longer.
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You're talking about beer. That could have been a whole lot more fun.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:32 PM   #535
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Originally Posted by tagz View Post
Is there a consensus on this? Does everyone experience funky flavors decreasing in 3711 over time?
I'm going to test with my summer saison mashed at 149* and fermented in the mid to upper 80's.

I have obe bottle remaining from last year it's about 12 months old now. I'll drink it tonight and post the results.
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Primary: 12-12-12 Wee Heavy, Stone Ruination Clone, Bell's Better brow Ale Clone and Saison d'Hiver
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Old 06-15-2012, 05:50 PM   #536
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Incidentally, the 3711 Tripel just went into the fridge (I blew through my IBA way faster than anticipated!); next week I'll be able to post an update on that as well.

@2brew: It'll be fine, but I agree that it's probably time to rack/bottle it. If you're bottle-conditioning, you'll probably want to toss some extra yeast in to make sure you've got active cells for carbonation.

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Old 06-15-2012, 06:11 PM   #537
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smagee
If you're bottle-conditioning, you'll probably want to toss some extra yeast in to make sure you've got active cells for carbonation.
Definitely need those extra yeast cells. For a traditional saison I like a well carbonated beer.
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Primary: 12-12-12 Wee Heavy, Stone Ruination Clone, Bell's Better brow Ale Clone and Saison d'Hiver
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:38 PM   #538
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First, here is my recipe this has been brewed twice now. The two differences between batches are Batch #2 was bulk aged for 5 months and then kegged. Batch # 1 was botteled and drank as soon as it was carbbed.


Recipe: Saison
Brewer: Le Freak
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.93 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 6.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 64.3 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 21.4 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 7.1 %
1.75 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 23.6 IBUs
2.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 20.0 mi Hop 6 9.8 IBUs
1.10 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.00 Yeast 8 -
1 lbs Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 7.1 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 17.50 qt of water at 162.9 F 148.0 F 90 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.89gal, 3.59gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:

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Primary: 12-12-12 Wee Heavy, Stone Ruination Clone, Bell's Better brow Ale Clone and Saison d'Hiver
Secondary:
Botteled: All Columbus IPA, Chocolate Peppermint Baltic Porter, Ewalds Altbier, Hopslam Clone, Scottish Strong Ale, Fine Creek Saison, Not so Pale Pale Ale, Double Chocolate Oatmeal Imperial Stout
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:50 PM   #539
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I poured a glass of last years summer saison which is now about 12 months old and a glass of this years saison which is kegged. Both were mashed at 148-149* for 90 min. Batch #1 allowed the fermentation temps to run wild uncontrolled and I would estimate Batch # 1 fermented at a minimum mid 80's to upper 80's if not 90*. Batch #2 I started fermentation around 70* and ramped up to 80* over the course of a few days. As mentioned in previous post Batch 1 was botteled and drank fresh and Batch 2 was bulk aged for 5 months and then kegged.

Batch 1: still has the saison funk is still crisp but I believe has lost the peppery phenol's that I love about this beer. The beer has held up well to aging and tastes incredible.
Batch 2: Has the saison funk is crisp but also seems to be missing the peppery phenol's this has been confirmed by a friend as well. This is a great beer for sitting on the deck and enjoying a hot summer afternoon (well both are).

My conclusion is Batch #1 is the better beer a year later. In fact drinking batch 1 then flushing with water and sampling Batch #2, the second is a little bland.

With all that said I believe my next batch will not be bulk aged and I will drink fresh I think the beers hold up nicely to aging but the phenol's that make these beers seem to diminish over time.

Here's to drinking beer on a friday afternoon in perfect weather when technically I should still be at work.

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Fine Creek Brewery

Primary: 12-12-12 Wee Heavy, Stone Ruination Clone, Bell's Better brow Ale Clone and Saison d'Hiver
Secondary:
Botteled: All Columbus IPA, Chocolate Peppermint Baltic Porter, Ewalds Altbier, Hopslam Clone, Scottish Strong Ale, Fine Creek Saison, Not so Pale Pale Ale, Double Chocolate Oatmeal Imperial Stout
Kegged: Indian Brown Ale

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Old 06-20-2012, 02:51 PM   #540
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Another question for you 3711 experts...

There's a local homebrew competition on July 7th, and at that time my 3711 saison will be in the bottle 3 weeks exactly. It's about 7.7% and temp was held at 68f the first 48 hours, then allowed to rise, never got above 76f. It was a month in primary with no secondary.

My gut tells me this isn't enough time to be quite ready, but does anyone else think different? Have you had one come out good this young? I'm not trying to win the competition, just looking to get my first real judges feedback on my beer. Just don't want to bother if it's not going to be ready...

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