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Old 11-15-2010, 01:17 AM   #1
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Default Why do a starter?

I am about to brew my second batch of all grain and was recently chastised at my local homebrew shop for not using yeast starters. I understand that a yeast starter increases yield and produces healthier yeast. On my last 5 gallon batch I just used 2 activator packs (Wyeast 1056 ale) and it worked great. My question is, other than cost, what are the benefits of making a yeast starter instead of just pitching multiple smack packs? I like the idea of harvesting the left over yeast from a batch after racking but I only brew 3-4 times a year so I dont think I can store yeast sludge that long in the fridge. Talk me into it!
thanks

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Old 11-15-2010, 01:21 AM   #2
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It's really a good idea to make starters when using ANY liguid yeast, smack pack, tube, or the jar of washed at the back of your fridge, for all beers above 1.020 OG...

The biggest reason I suggest folks make a starter is if you make one you'll have peace of mind.

And you won't be starting an "is my yeast dead" thread in a couple of days. (Which then one of us will answer with...."Had you made a starter..."

Making a starter first insures that your yeast is still alive and viable before you dump it in your beer. You will be less likely to start one of those "is my yeast dead?" threads that are on here every day.

You will also ensure that you have enough yeast usually the tubes and smack packs are a lot less yeast that you really should use for healthy fermentation.

Making a starter also usually means your beer will take off sooner, because the first thing that the little buggers do in the presence of wort (whether in a flask or in a fermenter) is have an orgy to reproduce enough cells to do the job...So it won't take such a long time in the fermenter since they started doing it in the flask.

Additionally it is better for the yeast to consume and reproduce incrementally rather than just dumping them into the fermenter...The yeast will be less stressed out than if you just dump them in.

Stressed out yeast can lead to a lot of off flavors...maybe even (though rare) the dreaded autolysis....Or the curse of 1.030....getting a stuck fermentation because the yeast have bit the dust.

So making a starter proves your yeast is still healthy, allows you to grow enough yeast to do the job, cuts down on lag time, and ensures that you will not get off flavors or stuck ferementations from stressed out yeast.

Also has to do with the actual pitch rates of the smack packs and tubes, and has to do with the data that Jamil Z has on his mr malty website.

I'll quote some of it, but really you should look at the stuff there;

http://www.mrmalty.com/pitching.php

Quote:
Ales & Lagers

The general consensus on pitching rates is that you want to pitch around 1 million cells of viable yeast, for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato. A little less for an ale, a little more for a lager. George Fix states about 1.5 million for a lager and 0.75 million for an ale in his book, An Analysis of Brewing Techniques. Other literature cites a slightly higher amount. I'm going with Fix's numbers and that is what the pitching calculator uses.
The Math

If you're curious, here is the simple math to calculate the number of cells needed. For an ale, you want to pitch around 0.75 million cells of viable yeast (0.75 million for an ale, 1.5 million for a lager), for every milliliter of wort, for every degree plato.

(0.75 million) X (milliliters of wort) X (degrees Plato of the wort)

* There is about 3785 milliliters in a gallon. There are about 20,000 milliliters in 5.25 gallons.

* A degree Plato is about 1.004 of original gravity. Just divide the OG by 4 to get Plato (e.g., 1.048 is 12 degrees Plato).

So, for a 1.048 wort pitching into 5.25 gallons you need about 180 billion cells.

(750,000) X (20,000) X (12) = 180,000,000,000

As an easy to remember rough estimate, you need about 15 billion cells for each degree Plato or about 4 billion cells for each point of OG when pitching into a little over 5 gallons of wort. If you want a quick way of doing a back of the envelope estimate, that is really close to 0.75 billion cells for each point of gravity per gallon of wort. Double that to 1.5 billion for a lager.
Pitching From Tubes, Packs, or Dry Yeast

Both White Labs and Wyeast make fantastic products and you can't go wrong with either one. There are differences between their strains and each brand has pluses and minuses yet neither is better than the other across the board. Use the brand your local homebrew shop carries, if you need a way to decide.

A White Labs tube has between 70 and 120 billion cells of 100% viable yeast, depending on the yeast strain. Some cells are much larger than others and there are more or less per ml based on size. (The information on the White Labs web site stating 30 to 50 billion cells is out of date.) We can just assume there are around 100 billion very healthy yeast. You would need 2 tubes if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts.

A Wyeast Activator pack (the really big ones) and the pitchable tubes have an average of 100 billion cells of 100% viable yeast. The smaller packs are around 15-18 billion cells. You would need 2 of the large packs if you were pitching directly into 5.5 gallons of 1.048 wort to get the proper cell counts. For the small packs, you'd need eleven of them!

But to make it easier he has a great pitch rate calculator http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html

And according to his numbers on his calculator, really any beer above 1.020, you should be making a starter for.

Me personally when I use liquid yeast I just make a starter. I may not be as anal as some brewers and makes sure that I have the exact cellcount for whatever gravity beer I am making, but I do make one for the above reasons I mentioned, namely peace of mid, and a reduction in lag time.

Seriously, that's one way to insure you have clean tasting beer, not to stress out or underpitch your yeast.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:27 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by bjack2 View Post
I am about to brew my second batch of all grain and was recently chastised at my local homebrew shop for not using yeast starters. I understand that a yeast starter increases yield and produces healthier yeast. On my last 5 gallon batch I just used 2 activator packs (Wyeast 1056 ale) and it worked great. My question is, other than cost, what are the benefits of making a yeast starter instead of just pitching multiple smack packs? I like the idea of harvesting the left over yeast from a batch after racking but I only brew 3-4 times a year so I dont think I can store yeast sludge that long in the fridge. Talk me into it!
thanks
If you just want to use two packages instead of making a starter, that's fine. I'm cheap, and I want to get like 10 batches out of one package so I wash and save yeast as well as make starters to increase the pitch count.

If you don't mind spending $12 per batch on yeast, then don't worry about making a starter. The idea is to just get the correct pitch count, whether it's making a starter or pitching more packages.
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Old 11-15-2010, 01:52 AM   #4
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I used to not use starters but after reading about the benefits I just started doing it.
I take boiling wort from my boil on a batch and cap it into bottles following the procedure in The Joy of Homebrewing. The day before I brew I warm the bottles and yeast up for several hours. Then I flame the tops with grain alcohol sanitize the vial or smack pack pour it into the bottles of wort and put airlocks on them. I add them into my chilled wort and I've had good results so far. Its easy to do and I like seeing the fermentation of the yeast in all grain wort I made my self. It took me a little while to step up to the plate on this but I'm glad I did. I also make sure to cut holes in and put 2 garbage bags over my carboys to keep the sunlight from effecting them. These 2 improvements in my process seem to have really helped the quality of the beer. I only had one bad batch over 3 years out of about 20 and it was only one of 2 5 gallon carboys because I was lazy and left it in the primary for like 4 months. It suffered from autolysis.
I make sure now that as fermentation slows but not stops to always transfer into a secondary. I've gotten into dryhopping as well in the secondary. I love the aroma of hops. I love the process of all grain brewing. I'm addicted to it. Virgina Wolf

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Old 11-15-2010, 01:54 AM   #5
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I used to not use starters but after reading about the benefits I just started doing it....... Virgina Wolf
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Old 11-15-2010, 02:00 AM   #6
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How's Phil?

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Old 11-15-2010, 03:36 AM   #7
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Hi Revvy

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Old 11-15-2010, 05:10 AM   #8
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OK I'm in. Sounds like starters produce happier, healthier yeast. I buy it. A few more questions though. How long can you keep left over yeast from a previous batch? For my next batch I will need to buy the yeast. Can I use the smaller "propagator" packet or do I need the larger "activator" pack? Also, if I am going to make a 10 gallon batch, do I just double everything or does the same number of starter cells grow in a larger medium? Thanks so much for everyone's advice. This forum is such a great resource for beginners like myself.

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Old 11-16-2010, 07:42 PM   #9
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Here's a link how to do it
I would just make 2 of them about the size he does
You could try 2 different yeasts or not
I would take a torch lighter around the edge of the bottle with some grain alcohol
just before I poured it in. That's in The complete Joy of Brewing
Hope this helps Good Luck

http://billybrew.com/how-to-make-a-yeast-starter

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