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Old 08-27-2010, 12:31 PM   #21
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I think it is almost impossible to compare fermenting temperatures of a home brewer to that of a commercial operation. Too many factors like size of fermenter, geometry, yeast pitching rates, etc. go into the mix. So Rogues 60F might give different results than our 60F.
Exactly. In the context of homebrewing, it doesn't matter a bit what Rogue does Revvy...plus, overall, their beer isn't world class IMO anyways.
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Old 08-27-2010, 02:50 PM   #22
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OH BOY. The 'Yeast Police'. I had a batch with WP400 drop to 50F. When I saw the yeast didn't drop out I left it that way. Did the second batch ONLY at that temp. The second batch was noticeably better. So now you tell me I'm not allowed to do that anymore? Yeah, right.......

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Old 08-27-2010, 03:07 PM   #23
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OH BOY. The 'Yeast Police'. I had a batch with WP400 drop to 50F. When I saw the yeast didn't drop out I left it that way. Did the second batch ONLY at that temp. The second batch was noticeably better. So now you tell me I'm not allowed to do that anymore? Yeah, right.......
I didn't say anybody was not allowed to do anything. I was simply wondering why people seem fascinated with cold fermenting with ale yeast. Basically, I am trying to say that I (just my opinion here, not telling you what to do) think it is better for me(just me, nobody else) to ferment my beers in the 65-70 degree range with the yeast strains that I mentioned (WLP400 was not mentioned).
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:08 PM   #24
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I don't think general statements like 'slower fermentations' or 'longer lag times' being necessarily bad are correct. Relative to what? You typically don't want the yeast going total gangbusters...you want it slower than that. And a lag time of 24 hours vs. 6 or whatever isn't really that big of a deal imo.
I agree. I've never understood this need to "rush" the process. This isn't a race, it's a natural process. Is it a youth thing? "Grain to glass in a week" is not my goal. Making and drinking great beer is the goal. If it takes a month, 6 months, a year, fine. That's what a pipeline is for. I'm never without beer to drink, and soon to be ready to drink. And if for some reason I am, and I don't having anything, or nothing's ready, I don't compromise that, I go but some beer. And use that rare gap in pipeline to broaden my tasting horizons by trying new things. That's how I've expanded my pallet for more beers to brew, by drinking more beers.

Maybe I'm just old......I'm not part of the instant gratification generation.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:12 PM   #25
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I ferment all of my ales on the cooler range (especially pacman and nottingham), and I'm one of those who must have a slower fermentation, potential underattenuation, diacteyl laden, crappy beer I guess. all because I think I'm going to get a "cleaner" beer. But what do I know? I'm just a lowly homebrewer. If you're getting great results at 70 and can criticize my techniques, then I must be wrong. Good thing you'll never have to drink my pathetic attempts at ales.
wasn't critisizing, just trying to understand the reasoning behind it.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:22 PM   #26
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wasn't critisizing, just trying to understand the reasoning behind it.
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..... if you want lager beer, get lager yeast and temperature control.
Sure didn't come off that way.

Sounds like, "my way or the highway."
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:22 PM   #27
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It really depends on the yeast and what you want to get out of a beer. I use various fermentation temperature profiles, but usually I start the ferment cool and let it ramp up after 4-5 days to ambient. The beers come out excellent that way and don't usually need any aging (unless we are talking high gravity beers). Brewday to finished product in about 3 weeks is what I shoot for in many of my <12 plato beers.

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Old 08-27-2010, 03:23 PM   #28
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Sure didn't come off that way.

Sounds like, "my way or the highway."
How I read it, too.

This place has really been kind of bitchy, lately. Sucks.
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Old 08-27-2010, 03:31 PM   #29
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Didn't mean it to come off that way.......everybody is a little on edge recently and quick to "snap" so to speak. I wasn't trying to tell anybody what to do, I was just venting a little I guess or trying to understand it anyways.....so many questions and posts about how cool you can ferment a certain yeast strain. No big deal. I will go ahead and apologize.........I should not have made generalized statements and suggestions because different techniques work for different brewers and so on. No one temp is always correct, no single mash temp is always correct..etc..etc..etc..

Maybe I am just jealous, my basement is 65 or so this time of year, and i have no ferm fridge, so I have no choice but to ferment warm!

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Old 08-27-2010, 03:54 PM   #30
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My experience, with both pacman and WLP029, is that you will get your cleanest beers between 65-70 degrees, with plenty of nutrient, O2 and plenty of healthy yeast from a proper starter. Make the yeast happy and they will give you clean, crisp beers..... if you want lager beer, get lager yeast and temperature control.
I have been using 029 a lot lately and I've noticed that if it gets above 70, it makes a fruity beer. I pitch a nice 1L starter at 68-70, then lower the temp over two days to around 65 for fermentation. Ferm definitely takes a day or two longer at this temp, but it clearly benefits the end result. Once bottled, this yeast continues to condition nicely in the fridge as well. Whereas most other top fermenters seem to go dormant at cold temps, the Kolsch yeast really seems to benefit from a bit of lagering time and cleans up the beer nicely. So, to me---WLP 029, a lager yeast? No. But benefit from lagering? Yes. At least in my experience. It's a great transition for ale to lager brewers that aren't yet ready to do 'real' lagering.

I make a house Noble Pils-type Ale with 029 that's almost as clean as any lager (lower mash temp also helps in this regard)...it's not a lager yeast...but still likes a good cold rest.
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