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Old 11-14-2011, 02:11 AM   #1
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Default What to expect from a Saflager 34/70

I decided to brew NorthernBrewers Bier De Garde today. I did a hybrid of the two different mash schedules --- I did 30 min at 149F, 30 mins at 158F, drained the mash then did a 170F for 30 min to get the rest of the volume for the boil. Everything went well, I chilled the wort down to 62F then went to re-hydrate the yeast and noticed I grabbed Saflager 34/70 instead of Saflager S-23 like the recipe calls for. I was planning on fermenting S-23 at 60-62F. I have a temp controller and the ability to do lagers, I just haven't before. I hit 1.070 for OG and had 5 gallons of wort after the boil. I did a little thread reading homebrewtalk to get a feel for how to lager. It looks like pitching 1 packets is under pitching. I pitched at 62F and put the carboy in the cooler, It is currently cooling down to 54F. It looks like lagers take longer to completely ferment out and may need a d-rest. What does underpitching this yeast do as far a flavor in concerned -- diacetyl? Does lager yeast krausen like ale yeast?

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Old 11-14-2011, 03:52 AM   #2
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less Krausen, 54F should be fine. S34/70 is actually the only lager yeast I have used and it has treated me well. (Afraid a little to try others as I am mostly doing ales) I'm not sure how much issue you might have starting at 62F as I have always started this yeast around 55F or a bit lower. I wouldn't expect huge krausen but some. I've let it run for a couple weeks then let temp rise. Probably not a proper diacetyl rest as I didn't measure but there has been no noticeable diacetyl tastes. From everything I have read about S-23, S-34/70 is cleaner.

With the low pitch rate I would suggest making sure there is a few points left of sugar to eat at the end when you raise temp for a diacetyl rest. I have no idea if that is the real risk but it is what I would be worried about. much luck!

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Old 11-14-2011, 01:08 PM   #3
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Most of the HB stores are closed today. I was thinking about buying another pack of 34/70 and adding it to the fermenter. The earliest I can add it would be tomorrow night...

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Old 11-14-2011, 02:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate_ive View Post
Everything went well, I chilled the wort down to 62F then went to re-hydrate the yeast and noticed I grabbed Saflager 34/70 instead of Saflager S-23 like the recipe calls for. I was planning on fermenting S-23 at 60-62F.
you know S-23 is a lager yeast too right?
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:14 PM   #5
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Yeah I know that s-23 is a lager yeast --- the northern brewer site says s-23 ferments clean at ale temperatures and is estery/fruity at lager temperatures. Their recipe indicates that s-23 should be fermented at ale temps for their Bier De Garde.

I think I just looked that the s-23 box in the fridge at the store and grabbed the first packet in there. I need to pay closer attention to the packet label instead of the box label next time.

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Old 11-14-2011, 10:38 PM   #6
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Let us know how it turns out,ill probably use 34/70 next since i havent tried it, I thought s-23 was really good i fermented 52-57 diacetal rest after a week for 2 days @ 60-65 racked then lagered for 3 weeks @45ish bottle conditioned room temp 4 weeks then stuck them in the fridge for cold conditioning.
Sounds like you could have pitched2- 3 packs maybe? With that gravity.I wouldnt worry about it. Although i would do 3 days for a dicytal rest once it gets pretty slow.

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Old 11-15-2011, 03:10 PM   #7
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I pitched the 34/70 the night before around 5PM. I checked it when I got home last night at 6PM and there is an inch of fine white foam. The airlock is going at a rate of about 1 bubble per second(faster then what I have read being reported on the forums). So I have an active fermentation in about 12 hrs. The temp controller set at 52F( I have a thermowell in the beer) and everything is looking pretty good.

It sounds like 2 packets would probably be needed for 5 gallons at 1.070. The online northern brewer directions for a 34/70 beer said to pitch as close to 58F as possible. I didn't notice I had the 34/70 until I had already pulled the chiller and had the wort whirlpooling. I usually let the wort stand for 30-40 mins for the hops and trub to settle after the chiller step -- I use that time to re-hydrate the yeast. Rather then risk contamination and put the chiller back in to chill down the final 4 degrees to 58F, I decided to pitch slightly warm at 62F. I will update this thread with my results.

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Old 11-16-2011, 01:45 PM   #8
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2 packets is good for a regular strength beer, you probably shoulda used 3 for that. I get some diacetyl from 34/70 when I pitch in the 60's, but nothing that doesn't clean up during a proper d-rest. I also get sulfur, which again cleans up over time. For me 34/70 is the lager yeast that starts out with a bunch of off-flavors and cleans itself up well... your patience will be rewarded with a more interesting, 'european' flavor compared to the s-23.

At the end of the day though, they're going to make quite similar beers, the differences are only slightly noticable in a 10-gallon batch of helles I split and used the 2 yeasts on.

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Old 11-16-2011, 04:57 PM   #9
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Sulfur smell or taste? So far there is no sulfur smell out of the airlock, there is a slight fruity smell. It is nowhere as strong as the fruity smell coming out of the Muntons premium gold ale yeast I used on an Irish red in my other carboy.

I have have tasted a couple of diacetyl bombs( Shipyard export ale, Tom Crean's lager, Olde Main Brewing's Clone Ale). The Clone ale was pretty awful since it was billed as a "clean american pale ale", but I liked the others. I know what diacetyl tastes like and I know diacetyl is a huge defect in a lager.

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Old 11-21-2011, 07:16 PM   #10
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Last night, I started allowing the temperature to raise for the D-rest. I was in Florida for a buddies wedding this weekend, so I wasn't able to check the gravity. I got home last night about midnight and saw the krausen was dropping. I upper the temp controller set point to 68. It has only risen 3 degrees from 51F as of this morning. I know that I should have taken the gravity. From looking at the forums, it looks like 2 days at ale temps is what people do for a d-rest.

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