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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Using Saison "temperature Ramp" techinique on non-saison yeast
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:13 PM   #1
KyleWolf
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Default Using Saison "temperature Ramp" techinique on non-saison yeast

hey everyone.

So, when you make a Saison, you start your fermentation low and after the major fermentation abates, you are suppose to ramp the temp up to 80-85 (I have even heard 90) to finish out dry, as well as get those great esters Saison is famous for. Well, if I wanted to get an ale, down to a really nice dry FG, using a clean finishing yeast (low ester, high floc, "clean malt finish" yeast), how much would you imagine it would effect the outcome if I ramped the temp up like I would for a saison?

Of course I know I could also just double pitch or such for the lower FG, this is purely an academic inquiry.

*edit* I also understand that I risk a lot of fusel and diacetyl flavors...but butterscotch is delicious lol. But really, my base inquiry is the yeasts ability to finish dry.

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Old 06-30-2010, 10:17 PM   #2
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I wouldn't think that you'd get a huge change in esters, but I don't really know. I have done something similar to this where I've made beers that I keep in the mid-upper 60's for 3-4 days and then pull them out and let them come up to ambient room temp which was in the 80's to finish out, but that was with S-04. And it was mostly because I needed the temperature control for another batch, not because I was deliberately ramping it.

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Old 06-30-2010, 10:25 PM   #3
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Right, that is how my set up is as well. the "ramp" isn't intentional.

I did this once with the S-05...and ended with 84% attenuation. I posted this thread because I thought it may have been a fluke...a fluke I really, really, want to repeat.

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I have also been to the bar tonite...so my evaluations may be skewed.
Currently in the works...

Primary 1:Honey Rye Saison
Primary 2:
Primary 3:
Secondary:
Secondary:

Up next: Rye Amber Ale, Brett Braggot.
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:11 PM   #4
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I have a 3711 Saison going since Sunday in mid to upper 70's. Looks like the krausen fell sometime last night and I think I will let this bad boy sit at ambient room temperature for the remainder of 3 weeks.

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Old 07-01-2010, 09:06 PM   #5
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So, someone told me if I want to get that attenuation and flavor and not worry about mixing the yeast, I could go with WLP568, the trappist saison blend. Any words of wisdom on this?

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I have also been to the bar tonite...so my evaluations may be skewed.
Currently in the works...

Primary 1:Honey Rye Saison
Primary 2:
Primary 3:
Secondary:
Secondary:

Up next: Rye Amber Ale, Brett Braggot.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:48 PM   #6
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If you want your beer to finish "dry" can't you sub up to 20% simple sugar for maltose.

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Old 07-01-2010, 10:23 PM   #7
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I am going to add a lb of honey in at the end of the boil to help supplement the dry finish. But this yeast is designed to do this somewhat on its own anyways.

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I have also been to the bar tonite...so my evaluations may be skewed.
Currently in the works...

Primary 1:Honey Rye Saison
Primary 2:
Primary 3:
Secondary:
Secondary:

Up next: Rye Amber Ale, Brett Braggot.
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:42 PM   #8
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If I wanted something dry, I would:

1) Mash low.
2) Use dextrose.
3) Use the highest attenuating yeast I could find with the flavor profile and pitch liberally.
4) Ramp up the temperature within the temp bounds of the yeast.
5) Use more simple sugars.
6) Consider champagne yeast.

Then, and only then would I ramp the yeast out of it's comfort zone if I wanted something crazily dry.

The step after that is to use amylase or beano.

If you want a clean finish and dry, use a chico strain and do the first 4. If you want saison flavor, by all means use saison yeast and blast it with heat.

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Old 07-01-2010, 11:34 PM   #9
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right. my plan is mashing at 147-148, lb of honey at end of the boil, and then ramp up to 80-85 after the krausen falls. I mean I know what needs to happen to make a saison. I just wanted to know peoples opinions of yeast and different yeast they have used.

Thanks as always

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I have also been to the bar tonite...so my evaluations may be skewed.
Currently in the works...

Primary 1:Honey Rye Saison
Primary 2:
Primary 3:
Secondary:
Secondary:

Up next: Rye Amber Ale, Brett Braggot.
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Old 07-01-2010, 11:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KyleWolf View Post
right. my plan is mashing at 147-148, lb of honey at end of the boil, and then ramp up to 80-85 after the krausen falls. I mean I know what needs to happen to make a saison. I just wanted to know peoples opinions of yeast and different yeast they have used.

Thanks as always
What are you trying to make? You just mention 'an ale'.
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