The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > US-05, pale ale and diacetyl. Ring a bell?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #1
Indyking
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indy-Madison (WI)
Posts: 690
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default US-05, pale ale and diacetyl. Ring a bell?

So, I'm officially giving up using US-05 for pale ales, and wondering if I should stop using it for any style.

I recently dumped a batch of APA because of diacetyl. It could not be missed, trust me. I'm sure you are wondering what I did wrong. Well, I have a standard brewing approach for ales that has been working for a long time. I make sure my pitch rate is adequate, sanitize well, oxygenate the wort, ferment steady at 68F for 2 weeks before kegging. I have made wonderful brown ales and stouts using US-05 under this same methodology, no problems with off flavors whatsoever.

Yesterday I was kegging a black IPA fermented with US-05 and I'm pretty sure I picked up diacetyl in the green beer. It's less than the dumped APA and I'm surely hoping it will be minimal once the beer is carbonated and conditioned but, I'm skeptical because I had become very sensitive to diacetyl.

I wonder if others have had similar experiences with this yeast. Thanks!

__________________
Indyking is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 12:19 PM   #2
Yooper
Ale's What Cures You!
HBT_ADMIN.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Yooper's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Upper Michigan
Posts: 60,044
Liked 4202 Times on 3059 Posts
Likes Given: 779

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indyking View Post
So, I'm officially giving up using US-05 for pale ales, and wondering if I should stop using it for any style.

I recently dumped a batch of APA because of diacetyl. It could not be missed, trust me. I'm sure you are wondering what I did wrong. Well, I have a standard brewing approach for ales that has been working for a long time. I make sure my pitch rate is adequate, sanitize well, oxygenate the wort, ferment steady at 68F for 2 weeks before kegging. I have made wonderful brown ales and stouts using US-05 under this same methodology, no problems with off flavors whatsoever.

Yesterday I was kegging a black IPA fermented with US-05 and I'm pretty sure I picked up diacetyl in the green beer. It's less than the dumped APA and I'm surely hoping it will be minimal once the beer is carbonated and conditioned but, I'm skeptical because I had become very sensitive to diacetyl.

I wonder if others have had similar experiences with this yeast. Thanks!
I haven't had any issues at all with S05 producing diacetyl. It sounds like you're doing everything right, but if you want to try again there is something that might help. That's just raising the fermentation temperature to 70 at day 5 of active fermentation. That would encourage the yeast to clean up any diacetyl they created.

One thing that comes to my mind is that diacetyl is sometimes produced by bacteria, like pediococcus. If you're using washed S05, that is a possibility. Otherwise, if you're using S05 straight from the package, and not having this issue with other strains, then I just don't know.
__________________
Broken Leg Brewery
Giving beer a leg to stand on since 2006
Yooper is offline
Scallywag Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 12:24 PM   #3
Brulosopher
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 2,697
Liked 198 Times on 164 Posts
Likes Given: 110

Default

I trust you, but I've never gotten diacetyl from any of the 3 Chico strains. When exactly are you picking it up- when racking to kegs/bottles, after a few weeks of conditioning, during fermentation? Green beer often throws off interesting aroma and flavors, but nothing a week or two of cold conditioning can't fix (in my experience). Using WLP001 (same strain at US-05), I often go from grain to glass in 14-20 days, sometimes less with a low OG, and my beers some out crisp and clean. Hmm...

Brulosopher is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 12:44 PM   #4
Indyking
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indy-Madison (WI)
Posts: 690
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yooper

I haven't had any issues at all with S05 producing diacetyl. It sounds like you're doing everything right, but if you want to try again there is something that might help. That's just raising the fermentation temperature to 70 at day 5 of active fermentation. That would encourage the yeast to clean up any diacetyl they created.

One thing that comes to my mind is that diacetyl is sometimes produced by bacteria, like pediococcus. If you're using washed S05, that is a possibility. Otherwise, if you're using S05 straight from the package, and not having this issue with other strains, then I just don't know.
I currently don't have the ability to raise the room temp where I ferment but I thank your suggestion. I always use a fresh package and rehydrate before pitching. US-05 is my working horse... I keep a couple of packages in the fridge because its stable for a long time, it's cheap, easy to use, and have a clean profile. It will be a shame if I give up using it but I'm getting traumatized
__________________
Indyking is offline
JordanThomas Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 12:50 PM   #5
Indyking
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indy-Madison (WI)
Posts: 690
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brulosopher
I trust you, but I've never gotten diacetyl from any of the 3 Chico strains. When exactly are you picking it up- when racking to kegs/bottles, after a few weeks of conditioning, during fermentation? Green beer often throws off interesting aroma and flavors, but nothing a week or two of cold conditioning can't fix (in my experience). Using WLP001 (same strain at US-05), I often go from grain to glass in 14-20 days, sometimes less with a low OG, and my beers some out crisp and clean. Hmm...
In the APA the diacetyl flavor was strong since the beer was green upon kegging all the way to 2 months of cold conditioning. I had to dump it. Some off flavors are tolerable when subtle but diacetyl ruins it for me. I would rather have a bud light honestly.

For this black IPA I just legged it yesterday. Smell was clean but I picked up diacetyl on the green beer. Maybe this one will be ok once carbonated and conditioned. I hope.
__________________
Indyking is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 01:23 PM   #6
edmanster
Whats Under Your Kilt
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
edmanster's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Taylorsville, Utah
Posts: 1,675
Liked 72 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

Only time I really had a problem with diacetyl with US-05 was a DIPA that a pro brewer picked up on.. now every beer over a 1.050 OG, US-05 gets rehydrated and left on the cake an extra week.. that seemed to solve it for me..

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadarnell
'how will i explain this to my kids' ... if i have to ask that, then i think my kids are in trouble ... just my 2 cents ... HAVE A BEER !!!
Father of 4 girls

Suffers from Zymocenosilicaphobia
edmanster is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 01:31 PM   #7
Jayhem
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Culpeper, VA
Posts: 2,561
Liked 254 Times on 206 Posts
Likes Given: 1156

Default

I had this issues when I started brewing because I fermented too hot and didn't let the beer sit on the yeast cake for at least 2.5 weeks. Now I do 21 day primary fermentations every time 65F for the first week and then 70F for 2 more weeks, then bottle.

__________________

Next up: English Pale Ale (ESB)
Primary 1&2: White Zombie (Amarillo IPA)
Primary 3&4: Summer Kolsch
Bottle Conditioning/drinking: Amber Rain (Dry Hopped Amber Ale), SM Belgian Golden Strong

Jayhem is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 02:13 PM   #8
SimonHucko
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Owego, NY
Posts: 147
Liked 17 Times on 14 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

I use S-05 for most of my brewing (including an APA that I've brewed 4-5 times) and never had any issues. Like you, I tend to be pretty sensitive to diacetyl and once I find it in a beer that's all I can taste. I know this doesn't solve your problem, but I'm surprised you're having issues...

__________________
SimonHucko is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 02:53 PM   #9
osagedr
Recovering from Sobriety
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
osagedr's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
Posts: 2,479
Liked 96 Times on 80 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

The yeast isn't the problem.

__________________

2012 Canadian Brewer of the Year
2013 Canadian Brewer of the Year

@evilgoatbrewing

osagedr is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-23-2012, 03:56 PM   #10
Indyking
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Indy-Madison (WI)
Posts: 690
Liked 11 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by osagedr
The yeast isn't the problem.
I have problems believing that when I have been using the same technique for ales and this problem is showing up only with this yeast.

Having said that, I do have a hand full of ales brewed with US05 that turned out great, so I'm really puzzled.

Looking back on my records of ales fermented with US05, the 2 that gave me diacetyl have only one thing different from the other successful ones. They both had an OG around 1.060 while the others were more around 1.050-54. I wonder if this yeast is getting "stressed" at higher gravities or perhaps 1 packet of rehydrated US05 is not enough for a 5 gallon batch of a 1.060 wort?
__________________
Indyking is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Diacetyl? in American Pale Ale HopeBrew General Techniques 2 02-18-2012 09:48 PM
Bell County, TX CGengo General Beer Discussion 7 10-23-2011 06:07 PM
Diacetyl Test and Diacetyl Rest Length ayoungrad Fermentation & Yeast 42 05-21-2011 09:57 PM
bell capper chrisrush Bottling/Kegging 2 12-10-2009 01:31 PM
My pale ale has diacetyl! Help me save the batch weirdboy General Techniques 15 10-20-2009 03:20 AM