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Old 01-24-2013, 12:49 AM   #21
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Miss Understand just posted, and settled the matter as far as I'm concerned.



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Old 01-24-2013, 12:50 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanmade84 View Post
Ok, so basic starter making 101:
Reducing CO2
Lower alcohol content
Higher O2 concentration
Ideal sugar parameters

All of these cause HIGHER attenuation since u have HIGHR yeast count resulted.
Umm are you making beer or starter. The yeast goes through 3 phases in the beer making process and oxygen is only important in the first stage.

Lower booze. Again are you making beer or near beer. I kind of thought alcohol was a big part of beer

Reduce CO2 at the risk of introducing oxygen and the nasty crud stuck to the fermenter.

I got no clue what you mean by ideal sugar parameters.

But the biggest reason not to is because many have tried and found it SUCKS


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Old 01-24-2013, 12:59 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinperez
Is it too bad for the beer if I shake or whirl the fermentor a little bit during the fermentation during the first 2-5 days? I mean a little whirl for moving the sediments not a vigorous shake.
This thread got a little cra cra. You swirl starters not fermenters generally, because you can cold crash and toss out the oxidized, nasty starter beer.

So why does the OP feel this is needed? Did the CO2 airlock stop "bubbling" ? the airlock does not generally indicate fermentation, a hydrometer reading does. It *could* be too cold (sub 60 degrees for most ale yeast). If so, i'd move it to a warmer spot or wrap a towel/blanket etc. What is going on?
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:01 AM   #24
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Looks to me as if OP may be talking about the benefits of aeration during fermentation, rather than agitation for the sake of resuspending the yeast. And there may be some merit to aeration beginning after the onset of active fermentation. If agitation is your method of aeration and it's also causing the brunhefe to dissolve into the beer, that's obviously not good.

As to continuing aeration after the onset of fermentation, quoting from "Making Big Brews Like the Pros", by Amahl Scheppach in the current issue of Zymurgy, in the section on aeration: "Aerate early, heavily and often...You can really help your "super" beers by repeating aeration or oxgenation during the lag phase and on into actual fermentation. This isn't something that the pros gerenarally do, but theoretically intermittent aeration can be done as late as five days into fermentation. How intermittent? As often as every four to six hours, if you can manage it."

I've read many times suggestions that big beers be given a shot of oxygen 12-18 hours into fermentation to boost reproduction.

OP, are you suggesting that there may be benefit from aeration, or swirling the yeast back into suspension?

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Old 01-24-2013, 01:11 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilgarlic
Looks to me as if OP may be talking about the benefits of aeration during fermentation, rather than agitation for the sake of resuspending the yeast. And there may be some merit to aeration beginning after the onset of active fermentation. If agitation is your method of aeration and it's also causing the brunhefe to dissolve into the beer, that's obviously not good.

As to continuing aeration after the onset of fermentation, quoting from "Making Big Brews Like the Pros", by Amahl Scheppach in the current issue of Zymurgy, in the section on aeration: "Aerate early, heavily and often...You can really help your "super" beers by repeating aeration or oxgenation during the lag phase and on into actual fermentation. This isn't something that the pros gerenarally do, but theoretically intermittent aeration can be done as late as five days into fermentation. How intermittent? As often as every four to six hours, if you can manage it."

I've read many times suggestions that big beers be given a shot of oxygen 12-18 hours into fermentation to boost reproduction.

OP, are you suggesting that there may be benefit from aeration, or swirling the yeast back into suspension?
This is what i was pointing out. Early aeration. Not putting the fermentor on the washing machime when its running!

Someone who has researched to a degree needed to write a book, has said AERATING OFTEN, EARLY ON IN FERMENT is a good thing.!!!!! Thats what i said NAMECALLING OF MODERATOR DELETED.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:12 AM   #26
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You've just made me regret giving you the benefit of the doubt.

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Old 01-24-2013, 01:13 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanmade84 View Post
This is what i was pointing out. Early aeration. Not putting the fermentor on the washing machime when its running!

Someone who has researched to a degree needed to write a book, has said AERATING OFTEN, EARLY ON IN FERMENT is a good thing.!!!!! Thats what i said NAMECALLING DELETED
Insulting a moderator is not a way to make friends, unfortunately. You were treated with respect, even though you can't spell "you" and have no backing for the ridiculous claims you made. Unfortunate, isn't it?

Anyway, to the OP, don't listen to drivel. Listen to what makes sense. There is no advantage to swirling/aerating your fermenter. Leave it alone, and let it finish up and then clear.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:16 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germanmade84 View Post
This is what i was pointing out. Early aeration. Not putting the fermentor on the washing machime when its running!

Someone who has researched to a degree needed to write a book, has said AERATING OFTEN, EARLY ON IN FERMENT is a good thing.!!!!! Thats what i said NAMECALLING OF MODERATOR DELETED.
If the airlock is still on, you're not aerating anything. Add to that the fact that it is completely unnecessary and you've got a recipe for dumb. Yeast are good at what they do. Aerate, bring to temp, pitch the proper amount of yeast, then chill out.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:42 AM   #29
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The only time I've ever personally swirled the fermenter was during a stuck fermentation, just before raising the temp, to try and rouse the yeast a little bit (the idea being to try and get more activity out of yeast that may have flocc'd out). After getting stuck at about 1.021 (OG 1.065) for 3 days, it managed to get down to 1.010 following the swirling/temp raising.

As far as it being a good idea, I have a feeling raising the temp a few more degrees had more to do with the FG dropping. Personally I think that the risk of oxidation makes swirling not really worth it, but, if your OK with it, rousing the yeast might not be a bad idea.

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Old 01-24-2013, 01:44 AM   #30
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Here's drivel for you, since someone suggested there may be an appetite for science: Quoting from "The Combined Effects of Oxygen Supply Strategy, Inoculum Size and Temperature Profile on Very-High-Gravity Beer Fermentation by Saccharomyces cerevisiae"; Heather L. Jones, Argyrios Margaritis, and Robert J. Stewart,

"The introduction of 25 ppm DO 12 h post-inoculation improved fermentation significantly better than the supply of oxygen immediately prior to inoculation. Under the conditions studied, the delayed oxygen provision approach resulted in a 33% improvement in attenuation time compared to control results. The results concur with previously published works which demonstrated that, compared to oxygen supply at the onset of fermentation, a delayed oxygenation strategy led to more efficient yeast growth and fermentation performance."

Granted, these were lab results, not garage brewing results. And the DO level of 25 ppm is incomparable to the 4-5 that could be had by shaking, IF there were oxygen in the headspace of a fermenting carboy. BUT... the notion that delayed introduction of oxygen may be beneficial in higher gravity fermentation really cannot be so easily dismissed. And when brewing a big ol' Belgian and looking for full attenuation, I'll use every trick I can.



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