firemostale

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Hey, just wanted to get some thoughts in an experiment I am trying out.
I just started getting into sours, and I am dying to brew one. I really like monks cafe Flemish red. It's not too sour, and has a lot of fruit tones in it.
I started pulling the lees from the bottom of the bottle about two months ago, and after about two four packs I had enough to start propagating yeast.
The pic is the result of this and I have a few questions about how to do this

firemostale

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I want to do a clone recipe and use the yeast in the picture after I propagate another batch in a starter. My question is, is there any of the Bugs or bacteria that contribute to the sourness left over in this or should I go and buy a smack pack of bugs that why east has? I really don't want to wait for the starter to see if a pellicle develops or not to find out if the bugs are still there...

Any thoughts?

JordanThomas

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What's the question? Are you just asking how to make a yeast starter with bottle-conditioned dregs? You just use the dregs as you would the liquid from a vial as far as I know. Make the starter as usual.

firemostale

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Btw if anyone wants some of this yeast pm me and I will keep propagating and send you some. I use glycerin and freeze it as I do for all of my other strains I use. Mine has always been very clean and have always had good results.

firemostale

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I guess my question is should I get a packet of bugs to add or would they still be in bottles and subsequently in the starter I made? I'm just looking for suggestions, cause I've never done a sour before.

firemostale

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Wow so much for input...

Calder

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If you check the Mad Fermentalist's site, he has a list of sours with viable bugs. He has a question by Monks Cafe, and indicates that it probably doesn't have anything. That said, I did successfully grow the bugs from it, so I believe it can be done. Maybe mine was a fluke.

After having done a number of sours, I wouldn't worry about getting the specific strain. I would suggest brewing a decent Flanders Red recipe with any Belgian yeast, then adding the dregs of a couple of bottles of Jolly Pumpkin (any should do, but try for La Roja, and get them as fresh as possible - they have bottling dates on them). Toss your dregs in with the yeast.

Why Jolly Pumpkin? The bottles are fresher than most sours. The Pedio in them seems to be more tolerant of IBUs than most. And they all have active bugs.

One issue with propagating yeast from a sour, is that the yeast will reproduce, but the bugs will not. The bugs and Brett will take much longer to reproduce, so by making a starter with them (and splitting it up), you just dilute the bugs. It takes about 12 months for Brett to reach it's maximum population and up to 2 years for the Lacto and Pedio.

Calder

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If you had posted in the Lambic forum, you would probably have gotten a lot of responses.

firemostale

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Thanks Calder. That exactly the kind of answer I was looking for. There ate so many different threads I wast sure where to post... I'll glance over the lambics section too for a bit more input. Thanks...

firemostale

Recipes 

**UPDATE**

Well I made another DME starter/propigator batcg today for the yeast dregs. I decanted off the cleared wort and put the new starter wort in. I set a little aside for a small taste test, and HOLY $hit Batman!!! It was like eating one of those sour warhead candies!

I think I am going to brew up a good Flanders and use this yeast. I think I will experiment with this, a bit. Maybe a 10 gallon batch and have two seperate fermentations going. One with the yeast I am propigating and one with the yeast I am propigating and a packet of bugs.

The only thing that sux is how long I will have to wait to see the fina results. Oh well. It better turn out good for the amount of time I have to wait.