New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermeneter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Tainted batches - what is wrong?




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2013, 05:47 PM   #11
Brewsit
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 177
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by duboman View Post
You don't list any of the yeast strains but aside from the Saison it all points to high ferm temps which will cause a lot of fruity esters and fusel alcohol production.

The fuselage should diminish as the beer conditions but the esters probably won't that much, although they may mellow.

If you go to the manufacturers website you can look at the temp ranges for each strain. Assume that if you are at the higher end you are fermenting hotter than ideal, being more mid range to low for less water/fusel production.
I did list them, just further down. AHS Persica ale and White Labs Burton Ale. I was always well within the manufacturer's recommended temperature range, and had the probe inside the middle of the fermenter, which means that the core temperature never got above the recommended temperature. This is why it frustrates me. The Burton Ale, I even started it cold and slowly raised the temp over the course of a few days. Every batch I also made sure that the wort was below the target fermentation temp before pitching, aerated, always used a big (3L) starter, told it bedtime stores, rocked it to sleep, I don't know... am I missing something?


__________________
Brewsit is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 05:50 PM   #12
Brewsit
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 177
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopper5000 View Post
Ya +1 on the temp, also sometimes even if you are fermenting within the manufacturers recommendations for temp, if you go on the higher end it can produce some of the flavors you are talking about. I got between 66 to 68 for my ales in the first few days and then try to kick it up a bit if I can towards the end to help attenuation.

The first 72ish hours of fermentation are very important for ester production and I believe the first 24 are some of the most crucial. So, if your beer is cooling down from say 80ish degrees (what tempdo u pitch?) to what you set your temp at for the first 24 hours then that might be your problem there.

The CA common probably didn't have as much of a problem due to lower temps and lagering.

The bitter is a little surprising but if you do what I mentioned above then that would make sense.

If you don't like the beer then you could make a second batch and blend them which would probably lessen the flavors.

On the first batch I did pitch around 78-80 and dropped it from there, but the others I dropped before pitching. I think the flavor is so strong that I wouldn't blend it with any beer that I thought was worth drinking, unfortunately. Maybe six months to year of aging?


__________________
Brewsit is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 06:20 PM   #13
Hopper5000
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 967
Liked 50 Times on 43 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

Well that's strange as it sounds like your doing everything right, but your getting flavors that would indicate high ferm temps.

It is possible that your thermometer is off so I would try checking the calibration on all of your therms.

Do you use any sort of cheap plastic or PVC in your process because that may be a source of some of hot solventy flavors.

I am also wondering if you use starters and how long you leave your beer on the yeast?

Stressed out yeast can cause these sorts of flavors as well which would be a result of under pitching.

It's also possible that some of these flavors could be coming from oxidation but unlikely because that usually shows up in months and not immediatly.

__________________
Hopper5000 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 06:21 PM   #14
Hopper5000
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 967
Liked 50 Times on 43 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

Aging beers 7ish+ % shold be fine. Beers lower than that unless you are lagering or something don't tend to hold up well for too long.

__________________
Hopper5000 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 06:23 PM   #15
Brewsit
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 177
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

No cheap plastic or PVC, everything food grade HDPE and stainless steel. I usually calculate the pitch rate to at least get in the ballpark, and do a starter every time. It's strange too because before, on batches that I didn't use a starter, didn't regulate the temp as much, and pitched warm, I never had this problem.

This is why I was thinking it is an infection, but does an infection really show up as a hot burning sensation and high esters?

__________________
Brewsit is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 06:24 PM   #16
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 5,794
Liked 428 Times on 401 Posts
Likes Given: 197

Default

+1 on verifying/calibrating thermometer and the temperature controller.

Also on stressed yeast possibilities.

__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010
duboman is online now
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 06:50 PM   #17
Hopper5000
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 967
Liked 50 Times on 43 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

If you look here:

http://www.bjcp.org/faults.php

Under the hot/alcoholic yes it could be an infection but it doesn't say what it could be. I don't really know either.

__________________
Hopper5000 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 06:54 PM   #18
kombat
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,315
Liked 545 Times on 358 Posts
Likes Given: 492

Default

It really sounds like a temperature issue to me.

I brewed a "Banana Bread Ale" for my wife using a Hefeweizen yeast. It has a faint banana flavour.

I later brewed an American Pale Ale with US-05, and inadvertently fermented it a little too warm. It has an overpowering banana flavour, much more noticeable than the one that was SUPPOSED to taste like banana!

__________________
kombat is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 07:13 PM   #19
Hopper5000
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 967
Liked 50 Times on 43 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

ya problem is it sounds like he is controlling everything properly, unless his thermometers are off...

__________________
Hopper5000 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2013, 08:23 PM   #20
FATC1TY
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Atlanta Area, GA
Posts: 1,597
Liked 125 Times on 105 Posts
Likes Given: 24

Default

What are you doing with your water?? Sorry if I missed it..

Tap water? RO water? Cut with something? Water additions?

Sounds like your temps are off, IMO.

Also.. starters... Are you letting these get hotter than hell, or controlling the temp somewhat on those? Crashing them, or adding all of the starter?

If you are making these huge 3L starters, and dumping them in whole, you are adding some oxidized, nasty warm, fermented "beer" to your beers. 3L is alot of crap to be tossing into the wort. Make a starter next time and taste it.. Taste familiar to what you are finding in your beers?



__________________

----------
Bubba's Backyard Brewery

FATC1TY is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP! First 2 batches are bad, what am I doing wrong? AxDxMx Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 15 11-27-2011 05:10 AM
What to do with my tainted yeast JonBoy47 General Beer Discussion 12 08-10-2011 01:18 AM
Anything wrong with 1-gal batches? +advice on first brew cinderbike Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 9 10-27-2010 12:58 PM
Priming Beer - some questions after a few batches went wrong PuppetmanInBC Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 11 09-03-2010 10:39 PM
What went wrong with my strawberry batches? patrick767 Mead Forum 11 06-05-2010 03:17 AM