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Old 08-09-2012, 01:18 AM   #1
KaSaBiS
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Default Step starter ratio using Jamils Pitching calc

Concerning the ratio of a step starter, reading Jamils page makes me feel like I have the wrong approach.

Using his calculator I have been pluging in the values of OG and volume of 5.5 gallons, viability from date, stir plate, and ale yeast and bump up the growth factor until it says one vial needed. I then take the volume needed at this step and make that my first volume required of starter. I take the calculated number of cells in billions, plug that into the viability, change my volume to 11 gallons and get a 2nd volume of wort needed.

Working with white labs vials and ales, I generally make a 1.5 L starter, chill approximately a day later, decant 2 days after that, make 2 L starter and let that ride until I pitch (usually one day).

He state that "Five to ten times the size of the prior step is considered correct.". He also discuss on the BN that brewers should be using a 2 L starter per 5 gallon batch without steps for a typical ale.

I am ready to purchase another flask and now have two stir plates, and want to know how to bring my process back on track. Am I getting much smaller growth than anticipated by misusing his calculator? (i.e. lower growth factor of yeast per volume on the 2nd step). Do I really need to go from 2 L starter to 5x amount? if so is he referring to liquid or Bill cells? asuming growth is logarithmic and not linear, would going from a 2 L to a 4 L be less than double the growth due to smaller ratio not encouraging as much growth?

I am prepping up for my first lager, helles munich from his great classic styles book, and with such a clean beer, am having trouble finding the answers in my prepperatory research of avoiding stressing the yeast.

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Old 08-09-2012, 01:29 AM   #2
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Try using Www.yeastcalc.com

This site allows you to calculate steps, mr malty does not, both great sites but I prefer yeastcalc

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Old 08-09-2012, 01:38 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duboman View Post
Try using Www.yeastcalc.com

This site allows you to calculate steps, mr malty does not, both great sites but I prefer yeastcalc
So same procedure that I am doing, but I am editing different fields. It has the same effect.

In some discussions they say to do a 2 L starter for a 5 G batch of ale. Think in terms of those who only have a 1 L starter, they would make a 1 L starter, decant and max out the 1 L again, but the yeast would not multiply in this case.

in my case I am generally going from 1.5 L to 2 L to get to my correct amount. but I am not really trusting it because I recently was an obvious victim of underpitching.

Do I need to make a smaller 1st step in order to promote a more aggressive growth phase in my 2nd step?
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Old 08-09-2012, 03:52 AM   #4
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I take that back. the information on yeastcalc displays the growth factor when you tinker with the ratios. Thanks! I have a new tool to replace the Mr. Malty calc.

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Old 08-09-2012, 04:07 AM   #5
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I emailed this to the yeastcalc.com guy:

"If you do a step starter, decanting between, do you have any growth when you do not increase the amount of wort added on the second step?

I was under the impression that yeast will (under realistic step sizes) and ideal conditions, will multiply until they feel that their population is adequate to finish out that gravity and volume of wort.

pluging in say 2L step then another 2 L step states an increase of 50%. Shouldent they have multiplied to what the wort could support in the 1st step?"

I would love anyone elses input on this

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Old 08-09-2012, 12:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaSaBiS View Post
I emailed this to the yeastcalc.com guy:

"If you do a step starter, decanting between, do you have any growth when you do not increase the amount of wort added on the second step?

I was under the impression that yeast will (under realistic step sizes) and ideal conditions, will multiply until they feel that their population is adequate to finish out that gravity and volume of wort.

pluging in say 2L step then another 2 L step states an increase of 50%. Shouldent they have multiplied to what the wort could support in the 1st step?"

I would love anyone elses input on this
If I understand correctly to answer: Once the initial step is fully fermented there is no additional food available for the yeast so there is no continued growth. The second step addition of new wort provides the additional food and thus begins additional growth. Multiplication of the cells is directly proportional to the size of the starter because there is now more yeast available to eat the same amount of added sugar so growth is reduced in proportion, if that makes sense..............
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