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Old 11-19-2012, 12:37 PM   #1
Frige
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Default Slow start

I hope I didnt mess up. I brewed a blonde bombshell sat. I have always used dry yeast but this time decided to try wpl001 instead. I am used to the yeast taking off and by the next day lots of foam and bubbles. Not the case with this one after 16 hrs while it looks like a yeast cake forming at the bottom no bubbles at all. I left it at 70 degrees until about 24 hours into fermentation and by then it was making progress. I lowered the temp to 64 for the duration.

Is this normal? I did not make a starter as I was told that a liquid did not need it.

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Old 11-19-2012, 12:51 PM   #2
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Funny, I am having the same issue with the same exact yeast. See my post above yours. Not sure if that is typical of 001 or we got some bad stuff. I am going to give it a day or two and if its not kicked off I guess I will re-pitch another vial that I will purchase from a different store. I have used vials for most of my 5 gallon batches without using a starter and never had an issue. Usually those vials almost explode upon opening after shaking them up, but mine didn't do anything but a small "Pft " sound.

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Old 11-19-2012, 01:13 PM   #3
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quite the opposite;

Dry yeast = No starter
Liquid = YES Starter

mrmalty is an excellent resource for figuring out how big a starter to make

I think a vial typically has half the cells needed for the usual 5 gal batch (depends on OG). They might take off after a bit of lag or you might need to pitch another vial.

But definetly look up info on here about making starters for liquid yeast in the future

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Old 11-19-2012, 01:22 PM   #4
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Sounds like a severe under pitch of weak yeast. The liquid yeasts can be tricky to work with because they all have a limited shelf life of about six months or so. The "best by" dates are printed on their labels and you should probably pitch at least twice as much as you'd think you'd need. Making a starter a few days before the brew day will help.

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Old 11-19-2012, 10:27 PM   #5
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I thought I was experiencing a fluke with the wpl001 two weeks ago when I brewed and split a batch of a ryePA.
the other half received a 4th generation 1056. after trying to make a starter with another vial of 001 that failed to do anything after 24+ hours, I combined the batches and let the 1056 ferment all of it.

still thinking it was a fluke encounter, I brewed a 5 gallon batch of an APA yesterday and pitched a fresh vial of wpl-001.
same thing 24 hours later, nothing!

I saved the vial, so I will send an email to white labs to see if there is an issue.

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Old 11-19-2012, 10:37 PM   #6
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When using liquid yeast for any beer over 1.035 OG it is common practice and highly recommended you make a starter for proper pitch rate.

Use either http://mrmalty.com or http://yeastcalc.com to properly calculate the number of cells required for your particular batch.

In addition, aeration is very important as the first phase of fermentation is growth and yeast require O2 for this phase. Long lag times are generally related to underpitching and poor aeration and cause stressed yeast and increase lag time.

The older the yeast the less viability of the cells, even at a month you can lose quite a bit of viability so when calculating be sure to plug in the correct date of the pack in the calculator you choose to use.

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Old 11-19-2012, 10:53 PM   #7
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Well it was percolating this afternoon when I checked on it. Not going crazy by any means but a nice even foam and its making bubbles. So I hope it works out. I have a o2 tank and I have always aerated so they have lots of air to breathe.

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Old 11-20-2012, 05:21 PM   #8
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Mine started kicking out some CO2system out of the blow off tube after 18 hours. It's going good now. Does a slow start and stressed yeast cause off flavors? I know the possibility for under-attenuation exists because of my not using a starter. Just curious. Also, I have heard pitching too much can cause unwanted effects also. Is their a "pitching rate" calculator for this?

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Old 11-20-2012, 05:43 PM   #9
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My recent imperial stout took 4 days to show ANY signs in the airlock using a liquid yeast pouch.

Dry yeast is quicker than a hicup when it comes to becoming active.

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Old 11-20-2012, 06:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by logic1
Mine started kicking out some CO2system out of the blow off tube after 18 hours. It's going good now. Does a slow start and stressed yeast cause off flavors? I know the possibility for under-attenuation exists because of my not using a starter. Just curious. Also, I have heard pitching too much can cause unwanted effects also. Is their a "pitching rate" calculator for this?
The potential for off flavors is certainly great so you should consider longer primary time, IMO 3-4 weeks to allow the yeast to help clean things up

As for calculators I would suggest Www.yeastcalc.com
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