Ss Brewing Technologies Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Slight fruity taste in Pilsner?
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-02-2010, 04:04 AM   #1
jackson_d
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wicker Park, Chicago IL
Posts: 331
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default Slight fruity taste in Pilsner?

First lager. Tried to control every aspect. Temp controlled fermentation chamber. Cooled wort to 55 before pitching 55deg starter. Stirplate starter for 4 days prior to pitching...

4 weeks fermentation with no more than 3 deg temp differential in either direction. 3 day diacetyl rest. Then kegged and lagered off gas the past 21 days. I know I still have 5 weeks to go, but a little taste tonight confirmed just a slight hint of fruit taste that was also present at the time of kegging 3 weeks ago.

What dont I know about lagering or this yeast strain at the temp i fermented at that would produce fruity taste? Or do i need to RDWHAHB until it is fully drinkable and gassed up in 5 more weeks?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts


Elevated Line Pilsner
Classic American Pilsner

Type: All Grain
Date: 12/12/2009
Batch Size: 10.00 gal
Brewer: Jackson
Boil Size: 11.25 gal Asst Brewer: Deez Nuts son
Boil Time: 60 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 84.00
Taste Notes: 1/6 1.013. still a thick layer of krausen in both primaries 25 days after brewing. 52 degrees ferment temp. diacetyl rest started 1/5 @ 55deg... 1/11 1.010 kegged and set for lagering.. very tasty but very cloudy. diacetyl rest knocked a few points off FG

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.00 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 5.26 %
16.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 84.21 %
2.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 10.53 %
2.00 oz Hallertauer [4.50 %] (60 min) Hops 15.6 IBU
2.00 oz Saaz [6.80 %] (30 min) Hops 18.2 IBU
2.00 oz Saaz [6.80 %] (5 min) Hops 4.7 IBU
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2 Pkgs Pilsner Lager (White Labs #WLP800) Yeast-Lager



Beer Profile

Measured Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.87 %
Bitterness: 38.5 IBU Calories: 243 cal/pint
Est Color: 4.5 SRM


Mash Profile

Mash Name: My Mash Total Grain Weight: 19.00 lb
Sparge Water: 7.59 gal (1.25g/# grain)
My Mash
90 min Step Add 23.75 qt of water 149.0 F mash temp

__________________

Fermenting: 12g Elevated Line California Lager
Kegged: Elevated Line Toast IPA, Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone, Elevated Line Blonde, Elevated Line Christmas Molasses Porter
On Deck: Death by Dunkel, Mango Lambic?, Barleywine, Wheat, Cali Lager, Pilsner, Honey Porter, etc., etc...
jackson_d is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 01:11 PM   #2
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 31 Times on 26 Posts

Default

Your fermentation temp is on the high end, so that could have given you a few more esters. Also, at what temp did your starter ferment? If you fermented it at room temp and then pitched the whole thing w/o decanting, it could also add some fruitiness.

Also, I can't say whether or not this contributed to your issue, but 4 weeks is a long primary for lagers IMO. Noonan recommends getting lagers off the yeast as soon as fermentation is finished due to the possibility of off-flavors from the yeast/sediment. I've transferred every lager at the 2 week mark, including diacetyl rest.

At any rate, by the time it's done lagering and carbonated, it may have smoothed out some and you could be pleasantly surprised.

__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 02:04 PM   #3
jackson_d
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wicker Park, Chicago IL
Posts: 331
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

thanks for the reply

I think i pitched the starter a little cold. maybe 49 or 50 deg.

the whole thing fermented a little hot for a few days before I realzied the temp controller would have to be set at 48 in order to keep the temp of the primaries at 52. so it may have been 56ish for the first 2-3 days. i now have converted a sanke keg to ferment lagers in, and it has a thermowell to put the temp controller probe in. 'exact' temp control shoundt be as much of an issue next time.

the reason i left it on the yeast for so long was becuase at 14 days, there was still a very thick layer of krausen. then at 21 days still a thick layer of krausen. then at 28 days still a thick layer of krausen. i thought it was still fermenting. i let it diacetyl rest 2-3 days at around 60deg, and that dropped the FG from 1.013 to 1.010 and it killed that krausen..

normally with my ales if i still see krausen, i let it sit on the yeast cake until the krausen is gone. in the future with my lagers, should i start diacetyl rest even if there is still krausen? i understand the slightly warmer temp will speed up the fermentation.. i have never done a lager so i guess thats why i figured i need to wait for the krausen to go away.

it does have a fantastic pilsner flavor, i think it will be very good. there is just this hint, just a pinch of flavor that is fruity in there. prob wont ruin the beer, but also would prob be better if it wasnt there..

__________________

Fermenting: 12g Elevated Line California Lager
Kegged: Elevated Line Toast IPA, Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone, Elevated Line Blonde, Elevated Line Christmas Molasses Porter
On Deck: Death by Dunkel, Mango Lambic?, Barleywine, Wheat, Cali Lager, Pilsner, Honey Porter, etc., etc...
jackson_d is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 02:08 PM   #4
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 22,023
Liked 984 Times on 656 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default

Frankly I think a little fruit is fine. I'd probably call what you made a Bohemian Pils though. Saaz is also a floral hop so that's probably contributing to what you're calling fruity.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 02:14 PM   #5
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 31 Times on 26 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackson_d View Post
the reason i left it on the yeast for so long was becuase at 14 days, there was still a very thick layer of krausen. then at 21 days still a thick layer of krausen. then at 28 days still a thick layer of krausen. i thought it was still fermenting. i let it diacetyl rest 2-3 days at around 60deg, and that dropped the FG from 1.013 to 1.010 and it killed that krausen..

normally with my ales if i still see krausen, i let it sit on the yeast cake until the krausen is gone. in the future with my lagers, should i start diacetyl rest even if there is still krausen? i understand the slightly warmer temp will speed up the fermentation.. i have never done a lager so i guess thats why i figured i need to wait for the krausen to go away.
Fair enough... I've heard of lagers taking this long, but have not experienced it myself (and I've brewed a good amount of lagers). I've never had one not finish in 2 weeks. It sounds like you did well in your fermentation aside from the slightly high temp.

You could have hit your diacetyl rest a little earlier. You can start it when there is still a krausen. But it depends on the yeast and how fermentation has gone. If you know your yeast and your typical fermentation progress correlating wth the krausen, you can gauge the D-rest that way, but ideally you want to start the D-rest at about 75-80% of fermentation being complete. 6 points short of FG would be the text book point at which to start the D-rest.
__________________

END TRANSMISSION

menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 02:23 PM   #6
jackson_d
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wicker Park, Chicago IL
Posts: 331
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

i do have an oxygenation system now. with the red bottle of O2. and i'll start the starter a little earlier next time, give it a good 5-6 days on the stirplate..

i think i could have made a bit of a bigger starter too.

i just did 1 cup DME 4 cups water 2 vials WLP800. next time 1.5 cups DME 6 cups water 2 vials WLP800 and 5 days on stirplate

so bigger starter, extra day on stirplate, and pure O2 in the wort might help fermentation..

and I'll change the recipe to Bohemian, thanks. it is a pleasant hint of fruit taste too, just curious to see how it will play out in 4-5 more weeks when it lagered for 8 total.


thanks for the help

__________________

Fermenting: 12g Elevated Line California Lager
Kegged: Elevated Line Toast IPA, Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone, Elevated Line Blonde, Elevated Line Christmas Molasses Porter
On Deck: Death by Dunkel, Mango Lambic?, Barleywine, Wheat, Cali Lager, Pilsner, Honey Porter, etc., etc...
jackson_d is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 02:55 PM   #7
wildwest450
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 9,099
Liked 165 Times on 150 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Save yourself some money and step up your starters instead of buying double the yeast.

__________________
wildwest450 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 03:50 PM   #8
android
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ames, Iowa
Posts: 3,117
Liked 38 Times on 31 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

also, shouldn't lager starters be on the order of 1 gallon if possible? i know it depends on the gravity and such, but i always hear more yeast, more yeast on lagers. i bet that's what gave you the esters was underpitching on this one. and also, 24 hours before you pitch, cold crash that sucker and get whatever starter beer you can off the yeast.

__________________
primary: APA

ebay temp controller | thermostat temp controller
android is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 04:05 PM   #9
giligson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver Area - Canada
Posts: 755
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

All I can think of
1) Yeast contamination with different strain
2) Temp not controlled where you thought it was (thermometer/ thermostat)
3) Some problem with hops utilization (less IBU than you thought)
4) Mistakenly using a caramelized grain when you thought it was Munich.

For what its worth I like a little fruit in an otherwise austere lager.

__________________

We who are about to Brew, salute you!

giligson is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-02-2010, 05:02 PM   #10
Beezer94
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Harmony, PA
Posts: 578
Liked 14 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

I assume you decanted most of the liquid from the starter, after you cooled it down prior to pitching?

__________________
RDWHAHB
Add more hops! Always add more hops
Beezer94 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Slight vinegar taste in IPA... scrambledegg81 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 6 10-01-2009 09:27 PM
Slight soda taste jhollender General Beer Discussion 1 12-14-2008 11:52 AM
Slight metallic taste...hop ball? buckeyebrewer General Techniques 5 06-19-2008 11:12 PM
Slight off taste.... rflem550 General Techniques 4 09-13-2007 02:08 PM
slight cider taste methoddman Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 5 07-20-2006 06:51 PM