Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > size of saison starter?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-11-2010, 05:35 AM   #1
ellijo89
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 116
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default size of saison starter?

i will be brewing a saison on sunday, 1.062 OG
Will be brewing it with white labs 568.
any suggestions of size of starter for this? i was going to just go with standard 1L but then i was listening to jamil show on this and he was talking about making sure not to over pitch this one and really let the yeasties do some work.
what do you guys suggest? or does it really matter lol

__________________
ellijo89 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2010, 06:37 AM   #2
944play
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 2,733
Liked 35 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 56

Default

I used 568 in a 1.064 beer with a 1L starter. That was apparently plenty of yeast, since it got started in just a few hours, but I did not ramp the temperature as aggressively as I should have and only got 71% attenuation.

__________________
OD: ?
Pri:-
Keg: Simple AIPA (2-row, Chinook, Cascade, WLP090)
944play is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2010, 06:44 AM   #3
ellijo89
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 116
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

cool ill keep that in mind. Im planning on starting it at 68 or so. Then after a day ramp it up to 85 or so within the week (as long as my heating pad can do that) haha. how fast did you ramp it up? and to what temperature.

__________________
ellijo89 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2010, 07:25 AM   #4
944play
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 2,733
Liked 35 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 56

Default

It was a couple years ago, but I think I only brought it up to 75ish. I wasn't taking obsessive notes then like I do now.

__________________
OD: ?
Pri:-
Keg: Simple AIPA (2-row, Chinook, Cascade, WLP090)
944play is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2010, 01:42 PM   #5
maida7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,816
Liked 44 Times on 38 Posts

Default

1L is probably way to small for a simple starter. Are you using a stirplate or oxygen?

Use the yeast pitching calculator on Mrmalty.com Use this to calculate ALL your starters. Then use the fermentation temps to effect the flavors.

__________________
maida7 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2010, 02:09 PM   #6
mojotele
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 827
Liked 12 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

The amount you pitch affects ester production. All other things being equal, the less you pitch the more esters you will get.

I imagine Jamil said you should be careful not to over pitch since esters are an important part of any Saison (any Belgian, really). But "over pitching" can be a relative thing. Mr. Malty is a good tool, but like any tool it is only suited to particular tasks. I used Mr. Malty to calculate the size of my Hefeweizen starter, and next time I'll either make a smaller starter or no starter at all as I really want more esters in my Hefe.

I'd say start with what Mr. Malty says. If you have a stir plate, that'll probably be something close to a 1L starter. When the beer is carbed up and aged and ready to drink, evaluate the ester profile. If you think it needs a stronger ester profile, you know to pitch less yeast next time! I use Mr. Malty's suggestions as the baseline and, based on my results, adjust from there.

__________________
mojotele is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-11-2010, 02:23 PM   #7
maida7
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 2,816
Liked 44 Times on 38 Posts

Default

Be careful under pitching. It can be harder to get full attenuation in a bigger beer if you under pitch. The saison style needs a very dry fully attenuated finish. Sweet saisons are just not as drinkable.

If you pitch the proper amount of healthy yeast, ferment at the proper temps you should have no problems getting great yeast flavors. At least that has been my experience.

__________________
maida7 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-12-2010, 11:25 AM   #8
Houblon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Hot & sticky Fla.USA
Posts: 706
Liked 15 Times on 15 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

SG under 1.060 = no starter
SG over 1.060 = 1.5l starter

Normal is a small starter batch and repitch onto yeast cake.

I use wyeast 3711 or 3711 with a blend of other saison yeast, I don't use wlp565 as the hassle of heating or stalling or long wait isn't worth my time.

__________________
Houblon is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-12-2010, 02:31 PM   #9
ellijo89
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 116
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts

Default

woops guys forgot about this thread sorta haha. Thanks for all the replies. And im going to go with a standard starter and make sure not to do it to small. Ill check out Mr. Malty as well. thanks for all the advice.

__________________
ellijo89 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
All Hail the Saison...and the Keg...and the starter Mose General Beer Discussion 1 06-08-2010 08:53 PM
White Labs WLP 565 Saison Starter Roush Fermentation & Yeast 6 08-09-2009 03:29 PM
Saison 3724 Yeast Starter Jsta Porter General Techniques 7 02-17-2009 04:34 PM
3 in 1 question! (about a starter, yeast and saison) MrEcted1 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 1 07-15-2006 01:45 AM
3 in 1 question! (about a starter, yeast and saison) MrEcted1 Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 07-15-2006 01:45 AM