dhickey

Recipes 

I am tired of dropping $8 for a slap pack everytime I brew a beer. What I want to do is this:

I use Wyeast 1056 American ale II quite often. So, I want to buy one slap pack, put it in a starter, then divide in 3-5 portions. Sounds simple enough!

Here is the part that is stumping me...How do I know I have a high enough cell count so I can divide it up? Is this possible? I don't think it is necessary to use it in a batch the wash it out of my fermenter. I would rather just do it from the beginning.

Buy one pack, divide to 5 packs, penny saved is a penny earned!

AmandaK

Recipes 

Yes, you could do that. However, I would not pitch 1/3 or 1/5 of a starter into 5 gallons of beer. I would split, then make another starter for the portion you end up using.

Also, be sure to make starters for the other portions when the time comes.

I was tired of buying yeast as well, so I've built quite a yeast library in my fridge. I pitch the original pack (with starter) into first beer, then divide that yeast cake into 3 mason jars, refrigerate, make a starter of one of those and repeat. I only do this for two or three (max) generations, but with my method, I get 13 batches out of one smack pack.

__________________
On deck: Scottish 80/-, Tripel Threat III, Rye Saison, Saison-Brett, Witbier
Fermenting: #37 Golden Strong Ale, #46 CAP
Aging/Souring: #16b pLambic, #32 pLambic, #38 Golden Sour, #40 Maibock
Conditioning: #18A BDSA, #18B BDSA w/ Brett L, #15 Flanders Red, #42 Black IPA
Kegged: #43 Cream Ale, #44 Patersbier, #45 APA
Bottled: #16a pLambic (Drunk Monk BOS 2012), #30 Scottish 90/-, #39 Mild, #33 Dubbel, #41 Ruination Clone

spiny_norman

Recipes 

Of you could just use US-05. It's the same strain, much higher cell count, and significantly cheaper.

Denny

Recipes 

Well, it's not exactly the same, although they might have had the same origin. In a split batch I recently did, I found 1056 to have a bit better mouthfeel even though both it and 05 finished at the same FG. Flavorwise, they were pretty similar, but again not exactly the same.

__________________
Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

dhickey

Recipes 

So the question remains, I make a starter with my yeast pack...how do I know when I have tripled or pentupled (not sure if that is a word...fifth..LOL) so that I essentially have 3 or 5 complete(full original cell count) packs to refridgerate and use at a later date?

PoppinCaps

Recipes 

A couple years back I had the same question, so I went out and bought a crappy microscope with hemocytometer and trypan staining (for viability), and ran some growth curve analyses on every starter I made on a stir plate. The end result is that with the common strains like American Ale, Irish Ale, Nottingham, etc they all had the same basic growth curve starting with a lawn scraping from 1/3 of an agar plate into 14oz of starter (1.043 with nutrient). After 24 hours, the growth started to top out, around 7 billion viable cells per oz of wort. Coming straight from a spack pack, you'll have no problem reaching that crest in 24 hours or less.

I'll check this from time to time, especially if the strain has been on a plate or frozen in glycerol for a long time. If the growth rate declines, I'll toss it and get a new pack, but this only happens to strains on agar for over 6 months to a year. Never had any slow down with frozen stocks, especially if they're under 4 passages old.

In any case, I use these numbers to gauge how much starter I'll need, assuming 5-10 million cells per ml wort for the brew. Hasn't let me down yet. If it's a healthy starter, dividing it up, storing in the fridge and diluting 1:20 for the next brew should do you well. My experience anyway. Or you could get a scope and cell counter and know for sure. One less thing (and IMO the most important) to worry about.

Denny

Recipes 

Doug, is that you? When did you move to Bend?

The only way to REALLY know is to get a microscope and hemocytometer and do cell counts. But that's kinda impractical. Other than that, all you can do is estimate the volume of slurry and decide based on what mrmalty says.

ETA: yeah, like he said! ^^^^

__________________
Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

PoppinCaps

Recipes 

Second that, always make starters for the future brews, even from the portions you take from this pack. Have to get the cell count up. Using my numbers, you know you'll need it.

dhickey

Recipes 

So I want to ensure I understand the process...

1. Put slap pack in a starter
2. Let it populate for about 24 hours
3. Then do my normal yeast thing...
a. Refridgerate to solidify yeast cake
b. Decant excess wort to about 60%/40% liquid to yeast ratio
c. Swirl into a suspension
4. Divide yeast suspension into 5 different containers
5. Refridgerate until I'm ready to use
6. Create a yeast starter to populate before pitching into my brew

AmandaK

Recipes 

Dhickey, sounds about right!

And I agree with Denny, I just don't like the way US-05 feels. I went to 1056, then to 1272 and I've settled on Wyeast 1450, Denny's Favorite. It's quickly becoming my favorite for lots of things.

__________________
On deck: Scottish 80/-, Tripel Threat III, Rye Saison, Saison-Brett, Witbier
Fermenting: #37 Golden Strong Ale, #46 CAP
Aging/Souring: #16b pLambic, #32 pLambic, #38 Golden Sour, #40 Maibock
Conditioning: #18A BDSA, #18B BDSA w/ Brett L, #15 Flanders Red, #42 Black IPA
Kegged: #43 Cream Ale, #44 Patersbier, #45 APA
Bottled: #16a pLambic (Drunk Monk BOS 2012), #30 Scottish 90/-, #39 Mild, #33 Dubbel, #41 Ruination Clone