Should I attemp to lower my FG? - Page 2

Frodo · 02-04-2012, 03:11 AM

I think it is relevant to consider that with LME (especially) and DME is that you never know the age, how it was stored, and how it was made, so you never can know really precisely how your expected FG will end up.

**NordeastBrewer77** · 02-04-2012, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calder

I know a lot of extract brewers stall out around 1.020, but I don't beleive it has anything to do with extract. I think it has more to do with inexperience; poor aeration, low pitch rates, low temperatures, low attenuating yeast, large amount of unfermentable steeping grains, etc.

I normally partial mash, but have done a lot of extract batches and have very few that have finished above 1.010.

Sorry for calling you out on this, but I see so many people using this as an explanation for a low attenuating beer, that it really frustrates me, when we should be trying to figure out what in the process caused the problem.

....... I also see a lot of comments saying that 'A lot of prize winning beers are made with extract', which completely refutes the 'high FG' explanation.

i agree that you can get great attenuation when brewing all extract. i do it regularly myself. but i feel that measures have to be taken to limit caramelization and the maillard reactions that occur in the boil. i'd say one out of five of my brews are extract with grains brews, and most of the time they attenuate quite well, usually w/in a couple points of what my software expects. i also do a few things with my extract brews that help maximize the fermentables that i get from the extract; i try to use DME only, and only use light or extra light in my recipes. if i need to use LME, like when i want some Munich malt in the beer, i use fresh (midwest supply) LME and add it at flameout. this helps reduce caramelizations and maillard reactions. it helps the beer attenuate and reduces darkening attributed with extract brews.
i s'pose you're right that a more experienced extract brewer knows these tricks and uses them. none the less, the extract stall happens when you don't use your extracts in an ideal manner, IMO.

Calder · 02-04-2012, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NordeastBrewer77

i also do a few things with my extract brews that help maximize the fermentables that i get from the extract; i try to use DME only, and only use light or extra light in my recipes. if i need to use LME, like when i want some Munich malt in the beer, i use fresh (midwest supply) LME and add it at flameout. this helps reduce caramelizations and maillard reactions. it helps the beer attenuate and reduces darkening attributed with extract brews.
i s'pose you're right that a more experienced extract brewer knows these tricks and uses them. none the less, the extract stall happens when you don't use your extracts in an ideal manner, IMO.

When I use extract I exclusively use LME and have no issues.

I gave up brewing for 7 years. First beer I brewed when getting back was using LME from a container of LME that had been opened before I gave up brewing. Although it was a light LME, it was dark after all those years.

OG was about (I don't have the details here) 1.054, and ended up at 1.014. This beer used a 'no-name' yeast; probably would have done better with a decent yeast. I don't believe age makes any difference to extract fermentability.

**Yooper** · 02-04-2012, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calder

I know a lot of extract brewers stall out around 1.020, but I don't beleive it has anything to do with extract. I think it has more to do with inexperience; poor aeration, low pitch rates, low temperatures, low attenuating yeast, large amount of unfermentable steeping grains, etc.

I normally partial mash, but have done a lot of extract batches and have very few that have finished above 1.010.

Sorry for calling you out on this, but I see so many people using this as an explanation for a low attenuating beer, that it really frustrates me, when we should be trying to figure out what in the process caused the problem.

....... I also see a lot of comments saying that 'A lot of prize winning beers are made with extract', which completely refutes the 'high FG' explanation.

Curious. I have had more than a couple of extract beers stall at 1.020. I don't think it's inexperience as I've brewed a bit in my time.

I think it's the fermentability of the extract.

pelipen · 02-04-2012, 02:07 PM

Ringwood is also notorious for stalling. I used it in a porter and gave it a good swirl every day toward the end of the first week, then left it for another three in the mid 60's to clean up diacetyl, which it's also famous for. I only have the one data point, but it came out fine. Ringwood smells really good.

**NordeastBrewer77** · 02-04-2012, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calder

When I use extract I exclusively use LME and have no issues.

I gave up brewing for 7 years. First beer I brewed when getting back was using LME from a container of LME that had been opened before I gave up brewing. Although it was a light LME, it was dark after all those years.

OG was about (I don't have the details here) 1.054, and ended up at 1.014. This beer used a 'no-name' yeast; probably would have done better with a decent yeast. I don't believe age makes any difference to extract fermentability.

wow. ya got lucky there.

it's still pretty widely accepted that LME, if dated and/or used improperly has this thing for stalling around 1.02. Jamil actually covers this in the beginning of BCS. since the bulk of the recipes in that book use LME, he mentions a few ways you can help ensure that the beers will attenuate well and the darkening of the LME will be limited.
i agree with Yooper. i've brewed a lot of beer, and i know some tricks to help make great extract beer. in fact, sometimes it's hard to tell my extract beer from my PM or AG brews when i'm drinking them. but i still get the occasional batch that peeters out around 1.020, with no explanation other that it being an extract batch. i know it's not a yeast health issue, and it can't be a mash temp issue, i ferment extract batches at the same temps i would any other batch, i don't do anything different that i do with any other batch besides replace the mash with extract.

phuff7129 · 02-05-2012, 06:51 PM

Interesting conversation. I say you learn more here by accident than most people learn by design.

The good news is I roused the yeast a little and warmed the temp up to 70 and I got it down to 1.018 which based on the lower attenuation factor of Ringwood is exactly what Beersmith said I should get.

This time the Hydro sample didnt taste as good and it had a stronger alcohol taste and smell. Is this the diacetyl? Anyway I transfered it to secondary for the dryhop.

I have to say that this is the clearest beer I have ever brewed. I used irish moss and the ringwood yeast is a high flocculating yeast. It is crystal clear!

Thanks for all of your input. It is much appreciated!

**NordeastBrewer77** · 02-05-2012, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phuff7129

I
This time the Hydro sample didnt taste as good and it had a stronger alcohol taste and smell. Is this the diacetyl?
Thanks for all of your input. It is much appreciated!

nope, no diacetyl, just a common trait of young beer. it'll smooth out in just a little time.