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Old 10-31-2012, 12:11 PM   #371
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Don't worry about the trub. It sinks below the level of the tap and stays there.

You never get any in the beer.. especially as you worry that "pulling all of the trub out on the first pint".

I've moved to no secondary a while back. I haven't noticed any better or any worse beers. You do have a little extra left at the bottom, but not much.

Some people say you have to leave it in the primary for a month... don't worry. I do two weeks primary, rack into the keg and drink two days later. It's all fine and I never get a cloudy truby pint. The only difference I find between not using a secondary is the time / effort saved...

Good luck!

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Old 10-31-2012, 07:31 PM   #372
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Well I would like to say thank you to Revvy for this one.

When I started brewing a year ago I read Dave Miller"s Guides to Brewing. And he instructed to do secondaries. His instructions on sanitation, primaries and secondaries was almost overwhelming.

Then I ran across one of Revvy's posts on not doing secondaries, prior to doing my first brew. I went that route and never reconsidered.

I follow the "three weeks in and three weeks out" rule.
Three weeks in the primary, three weeks conditioning. (Ok now that I keg, I can drink in two weeks)

One step eliminated, saving hours of time and clean up.

Thanks, on that one.

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Old 11-25-2012, 11:33 PM   #373
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yes no more secondaries amen brother.

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Old 12-02-2012, 10:03 PM   #374
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Anyone have some links to any published info for not using secondaries on the homebrew scale? I am trying to put an argument to rest with a stubborn friend.

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Old 12-02-2012, 10:15 PM   #375
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Just found a passage in Yeast that talks about it (pg. 156), but does not go in that great of detail.

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Old 12-03-2012, 12:26 AM   #376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spenghali View Post
Anyone have some links to any published info for not using secondaries on the homebrew scale? I am trying to put an argument to rest with a stubborn friend.
I am one who uses secondaries for 95% of my beers, and think I have good reason most of the time. But I have seen many of the arguments, and agree there is no need for secondary of a simple ale that is bottled within a couple of months.

Why argue? Let your friend continue to do what he is comfortable doing. As I said, I mostly secondary, and accept the argument that many beers do not require secondary, but I have my process, and don't want anyone telling me how to make it simpler/easier. I occasionally do primary only, but still continue to do my 'process' for most of my beers as I think they benefit from how I treat them.
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:47 AM   #377
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I'm not trying to convert him, I could care less what he does with his beers.

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Old 12-20-2012, 12:27 PM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Revvy View Post
There's a cushion of co2 protecting your beer, if you don't open the fermenter. I really never disturb them in the month I'm letting them go, so once it's voided out the 02 with the initial growth of co2, all that headspace is filled with co2, so it's pretty much covered in a big blanket until you open it.
I'm a converted believer in longer primaries, but this quote boils down my main question - which is about minimizing O2 contact with the smaller headspace rather than worrying about autolysis. I get that if I leave my primary rolling in my 6.5 carboy and leave it the heck alone, I'm good. But what if it is a beer that for whatever reason I'm doctoring or collecting samples of via wine thief? If the beer tells you when it's ready, you have to open up the carboy to have the conversation. If you've already been sitting on it for a while, it probably won't generate enough CO2 to push all of the new O2 out. Is this negligible in the grand scheme? Or do the people who talk about taking multiple samples of their beer pump CO2 into the carboy before re-capping?

Thanks for sharing the knowledge!
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:30 PM   #379
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CO2 is denser than O2 (1.98kg/m3 vs 1.43), so in theory the CO2 would settle to the low point of the carboy and the O2 would 'float' on top, with the other elements in our air mixed in between. How long it actually takes for the individual elements to settle out in a stagnant environment like a carboy is a question to itself.

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Old 12-20-2012, 12:47 PM   #380
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I typically don't do a secondary - unless I do. It depends on what you want to call kegs. It's the container that the beer is in after it comes out of the primary fermenter that is impermeable to both light and oxygen. Does this make it a secondary? I only have a two-tap kegorator, so the beer may sit for a few weeks before being rotated in. Sometimes I gas it, sometimes I don't. There's usually some yeast slurry on the bottom that comes out first. There are also the remains when the keg is kicked.

While I buy the CO2 denser than air argument, after a mixing event such as taking a sample with a thief, I'd say that the headspace is compromised and to move to the next step sooner rather than later. If atmosphere striated all by itself, us ground-living animals should all be suffocated whenever we're lying on the floor indoors. I think that the key to the argument is that the CO2 is being generated from below, gently pushing the atmospheric mix above out the airlock. When not enough is generated, there may be a preferential layer protecting the beer, but over a long enough time period, diffusion should cause homogeneity.

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