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Old 12-21-2013, 11:54 PM   #11
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TNGABE, I call you out personally. I don't usually do this, I hate trolls, I am not one. Please, in a scientific way, even layman terms, explain to me why I am wrong!
These bacteria are 10k times smaller than a yeast cell and can hide in every nook and cranny, scratch, blemish in anything and won't be killed very easy.
TNGABE, you don't like to be called wrong, I am sorry, your wrong!. Now explain to me why I am wrong and I will concede.
You called Saison yeast sacchromyces, when it is really, Brettanomyces. It's not the same, or near any sacchromyces strains. It does not reproduce the same. Many things about it is different.
I am waiting for a reply to explain my ignorance! :-)
Saison yeast from the big yeast companies is saccharomyces. They do sell blends that contain brett, and it's very common for saisson brewers to add brett.

Brettanomyces is yeast (thus the '-myces'), not bactieria.

Yeast cells are about 10x bigger than bacteria. I can see both, easily in my scope.

Starsan kills bacteria and yeast easily. I admit to launching a bleach bomb on my equipment about a year ago after brewing a bunch of sour beers, but according to Charley Talley at Five Star, Starsan is fine.

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390d...534e175a14d176
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Old 12-21-2013, 11:57 PM   #12
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Thanks bitigol, nice to see some intelligence in the discussion. I think, perhaps a bacteria infection in Sumo's case would be a viable explanation. Yeast cells are killed easy enough, bacteria can hide, protect themselves with protective coverings and do this in microscopic places. These bacteria can also screw with the fermentation, but make the beer far more acidic.
I only bring these elements of brewing up for educational purpose. So in the case Saison, you are dealing with one or more strains of yeast and likely two strains of bacteria.

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Old 12-22-2013, 12:15 AM   #13
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I now feel like taking out my upper dental plate & stabbing myself in both eyes. thanks Nevada Slim.

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Old 12-22-2013, 12:16 AM   #14
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Unfortunately, there are way to many, wannabe rocket scientist in these forums to get accurate information
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I really wish people would make sure they know what they are talking about, before giving out poor advice. You do no one any favors, talking out your azz. :-)
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TNGABE, I call you out personally.
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nice to see some intelligence in the discussion.
If you are looking for trouble, keep talking that way. I've got a very short fuse for trolls.

You'd do better to stop talking and start listening. The information you've posted in this thread was completely wrong, which is common enough, but don't harass others who are posting the correct information.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:19 AM   #15
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I think, perhaps a bacteria infection in Sumo's case would be a viable explanation.
This I agree with. I've gotten films inside bottles regularly when bottling with lactobacillus.

Cleaning everything with a strong starsan solution, or bleach (me!), will take care of it.
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Old 12-22-2013, 12:25 AM   #16
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Thanks passedpawn, good informative link. In fact those home brew guys got me going in the early days. I like the Starsan info, seems it works better than I thought, and I will check the PH from now on.
So, moral of the story is, clean, clean again and make sure it's clean and sanitize right before use!

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Old 12-22-2013, 12:26 AM   #17
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John,

I'll jump in. Here's Danstar's info on their saison:

Microbiological Properties:

&bull; Classified as Saccharomyces cerevisiae &bull; Top-fermenting yeast &bull; Typical analysis of active dry strain: &bull; Solids 93%-95% &bull; Living yeast cells &ge;5 x 109 per gram of dry yeast &bull; Wild yeast <1 per 106 yeast cells* (Lysine method) &bull; Bacteria <1 per 106 yeast cells* &bull; Finished product is released to market only after passing a rigorous series of tests *According to ASBC and EBC methods of analysis

I imagine that the other yeast providers have similar info on their websites.

It would appear that you might be thinking of something other than saison. No bacteria in saison. Just yeast. Well, trace amounts.

I've made several farmhouse style beers, followed by non-saison styles. Never had an issue. I use better bottle carboys. Just starsan after cleaning with PBW.

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Old 12-22-2013, 01:05 AM   #18
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Botigol, I all ways rinse my racking tubes after use, initially and clean them with starsan, I found a wall paper tray, from your home supplier to be conducive to cleaning any of the long skinny stuff, cheap and hold about 1 - 2 gallons of solution. Great for lab thermometers, hydrometers also.

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Old 12-22-2013, 02:11 AM   #19
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Don't listen to johnnv, he doesn't know what he's talking about. Whatever is going on, it is not likely to be a saison specific problem. Look at your process, cleaning and sanitizing. Saison yeast, even blends with brett, is easily killed by brewing sanitizers.

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Old 12-22-2013, 01:13 PM   #20
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This thread is amazing.

I can't believe the amount of misinformation itt, and lol at telling Gabe he doesn't know what he is talking about.

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