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Old 11-22-2010, 11:33 PM   #1
Nowuries
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Default Saison fermentation temp for agging...

Ok, so I really want my next brew to be a saison. So i'm tring to do as much research as I can before undertaking this task.... So I listened to an archived "Jamil Show" and they sugested ferm temps around 68° for a few days then increasing slowlly to 80° at a degree a day....
My question is this : once I've reached fg of around 1.008 should I let it bulk age for a few weeks, and if so still at 80°? Or once I reach fg should I carb and drink green kinda like a wheet beer?
Thanks!

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Old 11-23-2010, 03:42 AM   #2
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I recently made a Saison, and fermented it at around low 70's ambient. From what I have gathered, once fermentation is done you don't want to keep the beer warm, as it can cause off-flavors.

As Saisons tend to be high ABV, they need some conditioning. My Saison was still a bit rough after 2 weeks, but at 3-4 weeks it was damned good and ready to show off.

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Old 11-23-2010, 03:47 AM   #3
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Bulk age it for a few weeks for sure. However, I would not bulk age it for that long at that temperature. Bring it down and let it sit. I brewed a Saison with 3711 in May and I am still drinking it. Definitely let it sit and enjoy one bottle here and there, it is a beer that rewards patience.

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Old 11-23-2010, 04:49 AM   #4
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When I did my saison over the summer, I ramped to 80. And i left it at 70* for the secondary.

Primary for 9 days
Secondary for 9
Keg

It came out well. I still would have hoped for more yeasty flavor. So with a starter, I think I'll have to stress out the yeast sooner.

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Old 11-23-2010, 10:30 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowuries View Post
So I listened to an archived "Jamil Show" and they sugested ferm temps around 68° for a few days then increasing slowlly to 80° at a degree a day....
!
What yeast? 3711 works fine in the 60s, dupont yeast is the one that needs heat to finish.



Classic type >
CatHouse Saison -3711 yeast>

SG1.056
34ibu
10 days primary - FG was done in 5 days 1.056 > 1.004
10 days secondary to dry hop

keg was gone in 5 days, 3 were carbing so thats means 2 days of drinking.

Fermented at 72f.
-

Experimental>
Take heed of the gravity numbers, even with high mash temp/lots of crystal/carapils it still dropped to 1.004 in 1 wk @66F

SG1.060
FG1.004

Attenuation
%ADF - - - %RDF
93.03 - - - 76.79

ABV 7.38%

58.3 % Marris Otter
25.0 % Munich Malt
8.3 % Crystal 10L
4.2 % Cara-Pils
4.2 %Crystal 20L


28g. Cascade - FWH
28g. Cascade - 20 min.
28g. Cascade - 10 min.
28g. Cascade - 5 min.
56g. Centennial - 2 min.
28g. Cascade - Dry Hop


Wyeast 3711

Saccharification Rest Temp : 154 Time: 75

Brewed 6.27.10
Kegged 7.13.10
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Old 11-23-2010, 10:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall_Yotie View Post
I recently made a Saison, and fermented it at around low 70's ambient. From what I have gathered, once fermentation is done you don't want to keep the beer warm, as it can cause off-flavors.

As Saisons tend to be high ABV, they need some conditioning. My Saison was still a bit rough after 2 weeks, but at 3-4 weeks it was damned good and ready to show off.
Actually, Saisons tend to be lower in ABV. Traditionally brewed to be a session beer. Which is what I will be aiming for. (Special Saisons though can get higher in ABV)
And with a saison you want to produce off flavors... because besides the malt and hops, all of that spiciness and "funk" comes from the yeast and the best way to introduce it, is to ramp the heat up right after active fermentation has begun.
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houblon View Post
What yeast? 3711 works fine in the 60s, dupont yeast is the one that needs heat to finish.
The ones mentioned that need this higher fermentation temps where Wyeast 3724 (which Zainasheff had the best success with) and WLP565 & WLP566 & Dr. Chris White from White Labs showed up and agreed with Zainasheff that the Saison yeast strain needs those higher temps to have the correct flavor profile.

Oh yea, I don't secondary, so when most would rack to secondary I should just bring temp back down? And how low should I go, back into the high 60's?

You guys rock
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Old 11-23-2010, 11:33 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Nowuries View Post
Wyeast 3724 and WLP565 & WLP566
Those are the DuPont yeast and need heat, too much trouble for me when theres so many other saison yeast that are easier.

Expect to wait 4-6wks and it may stall around 1.020s for abit. After you hit FG(1.004-12) your good to go(keg-bottle) or if your going to age I would secondary at room temps or better lager in the 30s.
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Old 11-23-2010, 05:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Houblon View Post
Those are the DuPont yeast and need heat, too much trouble for me when theres so many other saison yeast that are easier.

Expect to wait 4-6wks and it may stall around 1.020s for abit. After you hit FG(1.004-12) your good to go(keg-bottle) or if your going to age I would secondary at room temps or better lager in the 30s.
Cool, didn't realize those strains where DuPont. Maybe going with an easier yeast strain like you've sugested would be best for my first saison . Also, good tip on the lagering... I could do that in my keg right? (I just got the thing and have not been able to toy with it yet)
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nowuries View Post
Maybe going with an easier yeast strain like you've sugested would be best for my first saison . Also, good tip on the lagering... I could do that in my keg right?
Use wyeast 3711 at room temps, pitch @68F and let it go for 2wks.
Take gravity sample, its ready to drink at this point if YOU want.

As your drinking the keg find which day YOU feel its best and use that date for your next batch.

But I have to say for your first saison 3711 is the best till you get a few batchs under your belt.

enjoy the world of saison`s


Heres a fast n easy recipe>

Batch Size (L): 22.71
Total Grain (kg): 6.02
Anticipated OG: 1.063
Anticipated SRM: 6.6
Anticipated IBU: 26.3


71.2% Pilsener
14.2% Munich Malt
4.7% Aromatic Malt
4.7% Beet Sugar
3.8% Vienna Malt
1.4% Biscuit Malt


Magnum
Strisselspalt
Czech Saaz


Yeast
-----
3711
Beer is done within 1wk leave in primary for another wk.
Then keg and lager for a couple wks or serve asap


A sample of the color ranges for saison->
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...sonCazeau1.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...reDarbyste.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...tomeDeNoel.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...illySaison.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...isonVoisin.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...gnesSaison.jpg
http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/z...2u/beer193.jpg
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