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Old 09-15-2010, 01:47 PM   #1
Bru
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Default Saison fermentation temp

"Jamil says" () to pitch at 68F and raise temp 2 degrees per day upto about 80F - start cooler to avoid the hot-alcohols.
Ive read some guys pitch at 79F and leave it there.
What temp schedule do you use ?
(Im doing WL565, 1.055, 30IBU - Styrians 90 min mash at 149F)

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Old 09-15-2010, 02:21 PM   #2
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Not sure on the temps, but I would recommend that you pitch another yeast after it gets down below about 1.025, because it won't dry out. If I had done that, I wouldn't have a cloying, undrinkable saison right now.

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Old 09-15-2010, 02:37 PM   #3
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@spiffcow

Why is you saison on undrinkable now?

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Old 09-15-2010, 02:43 PM   #4
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@spiffcow

Why is you saison on undrinkable now?
It's cloyingly sweet. The WLP565 doesn't properly dry out the beer, though it does give it a nice flavor. Even White Labs recommends a secondary yeast.

Also, I put a few spices in mine.. That didn't help things. It was only my third batch, and I didn't realize I wasn't ready to build my own recipes at the time.
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Old 09-15-2010, 02:56 PM   #5
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I keep it under 70 for about 2 days, then room temp. My saison is nice (Wyeast 3711). About 7.5%, not hot at all. FG=1.004.

I also used this schedule recently with a belgian strong golden ale, same yeast, 10%, also (strangely) not hot alcohol at all.

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Old 09-15-2010, 03:11 PM   #6
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I used the Wyeast 3724 (Belgian). I decided to go the way its meant to be made and not add spices and fruits and let the yeast work. I pitched at 74 and left it for 12 hours then put it in the garage and it continued for 14 days at 80-90.......it really is irrelevant how warm, I wouldnt go over 90 however. Came out spicy with citrus tones.......great beer for first run.........finished a little sweet @ 1.018 however still a fan favorite.

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Old 09-15-2010, 04:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiffcow View Post
It's cloyingly sweet. The WLP565 doesn't properly dry out the beer, though it does give it a nice flavor. Even White Labs recommends a secondary yeast.

Also, I put a few spices in mine.. That didn't help things. It was only my third batch, and I didn't realize I wasn't ready to build my own recipes at the time.
I double-pitched mine with WLP565 and WLP550. I had initially purchased the 565. I got busy during the week leading up to brew day and neglected to make a starter. So I went to my LHBS and the 550 was the only Belgian strain on hand. I decided that 2 mixed Belgian vials would be better than one vial of the pure saison strain.

It worked out nicely. I got a quick start but my gravity kinda stalled at 1.014. I re-hyrdrated a package of S-05 and gave it another 10 days in the upper 70F range. Not sure if the S-05 did the drying, or if it just died in the high alcohol environment and provided enough nutrient to let the Belgian yeasts finish their work.

I bottled at 1.008. I'm going to try to dry out a couple more points the next time I make this recipe because it wasn't quite as crisp, even at 1.008, as I was looking for. But it turned out a mighty tastey beer. My wife the wine snob loves it and will drink nothing else on football game days this year.
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Old 09-16-2010, 06:56 AM   #8
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Ive got WLP530 - I'll pitch that after a week.
Start at 70F for two days and raise from there.
Thanks all.

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Old 09-16-2010, 08:04 AM   #9
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Let me preface this with the fact that I know it sounds crazy, but it works...

I've done a lot of batches with 565 because I love the characteristics of it, even though it's a pain in the ass, and I've had the best results by far starting it at 90 degrees and maintaining that until it's done. The saison I'm drinking right now as an example started at 1051 and finished at 1004 in a couple weeks this way, which is pretty consistent with my other batches. The key to this yeast is keeping it REALLY hot. It will produce all the phenols you are looking for in a saison at this temp and no alcohol flavors, anything cooler and it will either take forever or get stuck.

3711 is a much easier yeast to work with for sure, but the characteristic of that yeast is pretty bland compared to 565 IMO.

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Old 09-17-2010, 08:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smellysell View Post
Let me preface this with the fact that I know it sounds crazy, but it works...

I've done a lot of batches with 565 because I love the characteristics of it, even though it's a pain in the ass, and I've had the best results by far starting it at 90 degrees and maintaining that until it's done. The saison I'm drinking right now as an example started at 1051 and finished at 1004 in a couple weeks this way, which is pretty consistent with my other batches. The key to this yeast is keeping it REALLY hot. It will produce all the phenols you are looking for in a saison at this temp and no alcohol flavors, anything cooler and it will either take forever or get stuck.

3711 is a much easier yeast to work with for sure, but the characteristic of that yeast is pretty bland compared to 565 IMO.
+1. 3724 is just a different kind of beast. Starting warmish and warming later doesn't work. I started at 75 and brought it to 90 as it slowed down, but it was too late. This yeast actually does best started hot, 85+, and kept there.

Also, never bottle a high FG 3724 beer. You can either add something else that has the same drying power, such as 3711, or wait. I let mine go 5 weeks at 1.034, and the day after I started a 3711 starter to finish the bastard off, it started again on its own! It came out under 1.010 from this restart a month later. A month delay and then a restart is very common with this yeast.
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