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Old 03-08-2013, 01:55 AM   #1
Ondori
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Default Saison 2 tastes like hefe?

So, I brewed the specialty saison from BCS, and I used the Saison 2 strain for the batch. I started of low at 68 for 2 days and then let sit outside in the hot Florida heat for like 5 more days until it started getting cold out from the cold fronts. I was able to get it up to 80-85 degrees those days. The beer has finished beautifully, OG 1.076, and I was at 1.012 when I checked last night.

My concern or question here is, it doesn't really have that saision funk. it tastes a lot like a hefe. I get a lot of clove and banana but no funk really. Maybe this will come out more later on? Has been 3 weeks so far. Anyone else have this experience with the Saison 2 strain?

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Old 03-08-2013, 03:20 PM   #2
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The funk flavors found in some saisons comes from Brettanomyces. I do not believe that either saison blend contains any Brett, so this has to be added separately. This is because those funky flavors are not always desired in saisons, some tend to be more light and fruity.

If you go on White Lab's website, the description for Saison II is
"Saison strain with more fruity ester production than with WLP565. Moderately phenolic, with a clove-like characteristic in finished beer flavor and aroma. Ferments faster than WLP565.
Attenuation: 78-85%"

It sounds like if you want a funkier beer, you should try mixing one of the 2 Saison strains with one of the Brett strains. I like Saison I and Brett B. personally.

Also, Brett works kind of slowly, so it will take way more than a week for those flavors to develop. My last saison sat for 3 months and just now has started to get a decent funk.

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Old 03-08-2013, 09:24 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by stageseven View Post
The funk flavors found in some saisons comes from Brettanomyces. I do not believe that either saison blend contains any Brett, so this has to be added separately. This is because those funky flavors are not always desired in saisons, some tend to be more light and fruity.

If you go on White Lab's website, the description for Saison II is
"Saison strain with more fruity ester production than with WLP565. Moderately phenolic, with a clove-like characteristic in finished beer flavor and aroma. Ferments faster than WLP565.
Attenuation: 78-85%"

It sounds like if you want a funkier beer, you should try mixing one of the 2 Saison strains with one of the Brett strains. I like Saison I and Brett B. personally.

Also, Brett works kind of slowly, so it will take way more than a week for those flavors to develop. My last saison sat for 3 months and just now has started to get a decent funk.
Wow! Thank you so much for that. I read that on the site, but I still thought I would get that funk in addition to the fruitness. I had no clue brett was involved. now, I know I will have to try that. Do you add the brett at the same time like in a starter or pitch it later on during fermentation?
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Old 03-08-2013, 09:45 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ondori View Post
Wow! Thank you so much for that. I read that on the site, but I still thought I would get that funk in addition to the fruitness. I had no clue brett was involved. now, I know I will have to try that. Do you add the brett at the same time like in a starter or pitch it later on during fermentation?
it does not matter when you add it, some people add it at bottling, some in a secondary and others in the primary. i have not made a saison with brett, i like wyeast 3711 by itself, but Brett Claussenii is the strain i keep around to inoculate various other beers and i bet it would be nice in a saison.
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ondori View Post
Wow! Thank you so much for that. I read that on the site, but I still thought I would get that funk in addition to the fruitness. I had no clue brett was involved. now, I know I will have to try that. Do you add the brett at the same time like in a starter or pitch it later on during fermentation?
I normally add it to my starter, just because I want a good amount of funk in my beer. Regular beer yeast tends to dominate fermentation, so I find that throwing Brett from the start gives it a few more sugars to ferment and add its flavor. Alternately, you can also add some sugars like maltodextrin that are fermentable by Brett that aren't by a normal beer yeast.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Ondori View Post
So, I brewed the specialty saison from BCS, and I used the Saison 2 strain for the batch. I started of low at 68 for 2 days and then let sit outside in the hot Florida heat for like 5 more days until it started getting cold out from the cold fronts. I was able to get it up to 80-85 degrees those days. The beer has finished beautifully, OG 1.076, and I was at 1.012 when I checked last night.

My concern or question here is, it doesn't really have that saision funk. it tastes a lot like a hefe. I get a lot of clove and banana but no funk really. Maybe this will come out more later on? Has been 3 weeks so far. Anyone else have this experience with the Saison 2 strain?
With that hot temp, it doesn't surprise me. Try controlling the temp better and keep it cooler to minimize the esters next time.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:43 PM   #7
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Well I wanted the esters. The problem was no funk, but turns out the funk comes from brett. Didn't know that. Just thought the saison strain would provide that as well.

This one reminds me of the swamphead saison we have from a local brewery here in Florida. It's delicious, but I was thought I was going to get a flavor profile similar to DuPont maybe. Next time I'll try adding some Brett B or C

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Old 03-10-2013, 03:59 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Ondori View Post
Well I wanted the esters. The problem was no funk, but turns out the funk comes from brett. Didn't know that. Just thought the saison strain would provide that as well.

This one reminds me of the swamphead saison we have from a local brewery here in Florida. It's delicious, but I was thought I was going to get a flavor profile similar to DuPont maybe. Next time I'll try adding some Brett B or C
The funk can come from brett, but it doesn't have to. Wyeast 1215, 3522, 3711 are but three funky sacc strains I've used.
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Old 03-10-2013, 08:07 PM   #9
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I will have to try those. I went with WLP566 Saison 2 to be on the safe side since the first one tends to stall out at 1.030.

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Old 03-14-2013, 03:50 PM   #10
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I brewed with WLP566 and my beer came out a bit "Hefe"-like as well, so like others mentioned this is more in line with the flavor profile to expect as opposed to the "funk" you are looking for . . . Saisons can be all over the place in terms of taste and sometime I feel like they are a cousin to Hefe yeasts.

Also as a heads us, even WLP566 stalls out. Mine hit a brick wall at 1.036 (OG=1.050). I aerated with oxygen and pitched at 2/3 recommended pitch rate at 68 F. Left at 68 until it stalled at 1.036 after 3 days. (Fermentation was rocking from 1.050 to 1.036). I then heated up to 80 F and fermentation kicked off again and finished at 1.009. Couldn't dry it out any more than that, though (didn't want to pitch champagne yeast in it). Beer turned out nice. Lots of esters and spicyness, but not too much "funk".

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