robtotten

Recipes 

As I mentioned in my previous post, s04 gets funky in my experience when it gets much above 70 early in fermentation.

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if god wanted us to drink beer, she would have given us stomachs

Dog House Brew

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Like Notti a lot when it is held cold like Yooper stated. For whatever reason I don't like S-04. I've used it 4 times and eveytime I say it is the last time I use it. Who know maybe i'll use it again. I think it would be hard to say with the higher ferment temps. Try them again at a controlled lower primary temp.

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Are You Going to Drink all That?

Franc103

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OP,

First, you are a great writer. Thank you for taking the time to write like you respect the reader.

Second, what is your oxygenation procedure? I have traced the appearance of a similar off flavor to when I switched to full boils. The long boiling of the full volume was driving off most of the free oxygen that I used to re-introduce through top-off water. I switched back to partial boils and partial mashes and the problem went away.

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Dr. François

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be."
--Kurt Vonnegut

winvarin

Recipes 

Sorry. Just saw this. I use an O2 canister and a wand. 30-45 seconds at full blast. But I think I may have the culprit. Something happened last night but I can't explain in this post as I am typing this on my phone (stupid work Internet filter)

I am going to type a new post with my findings. Hopefully it will be up here in a bit.

__________________
"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger, or a beer."
-Confucius

winvarin

Recipes 

Yooper,
You may actually be onto something with the infection angle. I went over my process again and again and didn’t see it at first. I was actually looking for something process or gear related.
- No scratches in the betterbottle – check
- Brand new tubing used for all transfers on this batch – check
- Boiled the wort chiller for the last 20 min of the boil – check
- Boiled and gave my oxygenation wand a starsan bath – check
- Fermenter and everything that touched the beer cold side with a good starsan soak – check, check, check

I thought, surely it could not be infection. After getting an infection in the brewhouse last year due to a small cut in a transfer hose, I have been hyper attentive to sanitation. I had to pitch 2 beers due to that (and got a couple of bottle bombs to boot). So surely it couldn’t have been infection. My gear was clean and sanitary.

And I still believe it was. My ingredients however ….

Thanks to my lovely bride for helping me put 2 and 2 together. Allow me to explain.

This beer was one of 2 that I had bought intending to knockout a couple of quick extract batches. The keezer was running low and I was wanting some variety around for the holidays. I bought the extract from a local shop that measures out and seals bulk extract in food-safe containers. I bought the ingredients for this stout, and a standard bitter. The extract was liquid, not dry. I bought the stuff on 9/21 (thank goodness I keep receipts). I got busy at work, one thing led to another and I didn’t make the first beer until 10/30. Nothing seemed off about the extract when I opened the container (but again, it was just a hand-sealed, food-safe container, not a factory-sealed can of liquid extract).

Holidays ensue. I try the stout, and take to the web to try to figure out what the off flavor/aroma are. This beer has also developed a significant problem with head retention.

The ingredients for the bitter (except hops and yeast) continue to sit at room temperature in my closet. I knockout some grain brews, which taste fine, and completely forget that the extract for my bitter is in the closet waiting to be brewed. Until yesterday when I announce my intention to brew this weekend. I tell my wife, it’s time for a trip to the brew shop. My ever-practical (and frugal) wife says to me, “When are you going to make that bitter that you bought the ingredients for months ago?”

Aha. I can brew without making a trip to the shop? Cool. Until I take a look at the food-safe container of extract. Does anybody else see where this is going?

The lid had a significant outward curve to it. The same kind of curve that would make the average cook pitch a can of green beans in the trash instead of feeding them to their family. I take the container to the sink and open it (pointing away from me of course). There is a small pop and a hiss. And the faint aroma of acetone

“Hmm,” I said to the wife. “It looks like a trip to the brew shop is in order after all.”

And then she said two things that confirm why I married this lovely woman.

First she says, “Pick up a packet of US-05. I don’t want to hear you whine about not liking the flavor of British yeast anymore.”

Then she says, “You know, I wonder if the extract for that other beer went south on you before you used it.”

Bingo!!! My theory (and confirm or debunk it if you will) is that something had gotten ahold of the extract and maybe had begun to taint it. Something that would create a funky aroma and flavor, but would have been killed by the boil. However, the flavor and aroma carried through to the finished product as the source ingredient had already been tainted.

I in no way fault the brew shop. I am sure they intend for their bulk extract to be used within a few days or a couple of weeks of purchase. Actually, the fact that the second container of extract only had a slight “bow” after 4 months instead of blowing up in my closet, is likely a testament to the fact that the run a pretty clean operation.

So what do you guys think? Plausible?

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"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger, or a beer."
-Confucius

blackbird

Recipes 

So it's only the extract batches you've had problems with?

I would stay away from the extract for a while and brew another batch or two with those yeasts and see how they turn out.

I'm assuming the "food-grade" containers the extract was stored in was plastic?? Did you heat them in any manner in order to better extract the syrup?

winvarin

Recipes 

It was only the extract bulk in the white plastic containers. I did not heat them beyond pouring some of the brew water in them to get the extract that was clinging to the sides.

A project at work and some non brewing personal commitments have put my brewing on hold for a few weeks. I dumped that bulk extract and just picked up some Muntons in the metal can as a replacement. Hope to brew it next weekend and get back to all grain after that.

I had hoped those 2 extract kits would allow me to turn around a couple of quick batches with a minimum of fuss. They are turning out to be more trouble than they were worth. The2 all grain batches I made in the meantime turned out great.

__________________
"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger, or a beer."
-Confucius

winvarin

Recipes 

Just an update here. I brewed the second extract batch on 2/24. It appears the possibility of infection is now quite real. As a quick recap, I bought bulk extract for 2 batches in late September. I brewed one in late Oct and it had some terrible off flavors and aromas. By the time I looked at the canister of extract for Batch 2 in late january, the lid had swelled and the extract smelled like nail polish.

So I bought a couple of metal cans of Muntons Extra Light liquid extract and replaced the specialty grains for good measure. The only things I kept from the original kit were the hops and the packet of Notty.

Brewed on 2/24. Two weeks primary at 65-67F (since Yoop said it could get nasty if it gets warm). Detected no off esters or diacetyl at 2 weeks so I left it on the primary yeast cake but cranked the temperature down to about 56F for a week. The Danstar-Lallemand website says Notty is good to high lager temps (around 54) so I figured I would cold crash it for clarity but also get some additional clean up from the yeast.

Tasted it Saturday when I kegged it. Yum. Nice malt balanced with firm bitterness. It's on the low end of the BJCP numbers for an ESB, but just over what they have for a Special-Premium Bitter. Just a hint of fruity esters (assuming from the Notty).

So maybe I like British yeasts afterall. I just don't like infected beer.

__________________
"An oppressive government is more to be feared than a tiger, or a beer."
-Confucius