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Old 01-09-2013, 09:09 PM   #1
ishredthecello
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Default Question: Wyeast Calculator (Am I Doing It Right?)

So I have a beer that hopville calculates should be 1.085 OG, now looking at the Wyeast Lab Pitch Rates (http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_pitchrates.cfm) shows a beer of this OG should have >18 Million Cells/ml.

Judging by what info I think is correct a Smack Pack of Wyeast Ardennes is about 6 Million Cells/ml? So that would mean if I just wanted to pitch the yeast I would need 3 packs (probably 4 to be safe).

Now comes in the starter calculator (http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_pitchrate.cfm). So using this I need 2 packets in a 1 gallon starter and that would give me 21.46 million cells/ml. (This is without a stirplate)

Is this math correct, I'm not all that familiar with starters, I tried one, but if this math is right, there is no way I did it correctly for a beer with a similar OG and I clearly didn't pitch enough yeast.

How would I make a 1 gallon starter? Or is 1 gallon really overkill? I would imagine easiest method would be to buy a 1 gallon glass jug and pitch it in there.

Something about this doesn't seem right to me, and screams I'm doing something wrong.

Does this make any sense?



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Old 01-09-2013, 09:51 PM   #2
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Now when using the Mr. Malty Calculator (http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html). I choose Ale, 1.085, choose stir plate, it says I need 1 liter starter to make the starter and 2 packs. But this shows as only building about 16million per ml, where as wyeast says it should be about 18million per ml.

So what am I doing wrong here. 1liter seems more sensible to me than dumping another gallon in.

I saw a video where it says the calculation for figuring out cell amounts and all is 750k x plato degree. So my batch is 20.4.

760,000 x 20.4 = comes out to be about 15.5million. SO going by this Mr Malty is more accurate with getting me the 16million p/ml

Well I think I'm going to roll with the Mr. Malty version, but curious as to others thoughts.



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Old 01-16-2013, 04:11 PM   #3
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I'm a little late, you probably already brewed and pitched...but heres my .02

Here is a quote from MrMalty about pitching rates & starter sizes:

"Why don't 1 liter starters produce more yeast, even with a stir plate? There just isn't enough food to build that much yeast, no matter how much O2 and nutrient you add to it."

Even thought Mrmalty calculator shows 2 packets in 1 liter starter, they also say that it should be stepped up a 2 or even 4 liter starter to get the correct quantity & QUALITY yeast you need for a big beer.

You need about 300billion cells for pitching into 5.25 gal. of 1.085 wort.
From MrMalty:
"Pitching a Wyeast Activator pack gives the following results within 12 to 18 hours:

1 liter starter = about 150 billion cells
2 liter starter = about 200 billion cells
1 liter starter, then pitched into 4 liter starter = 400 billion cells"

You could step up from 1 liter to 4 liter, chill, decant most liquid, shake it up and pitch 3/4 of the whole thing, that would leave you with some yeast for your next batch & come up with the correct amount of healthy yeast for this batch. Without a stir plate, you may want to just pitch the whole amount of yeast though. I would decant first, you don't want to water down your wort by a whole gallon!
Regards,

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Old 01-17-2013, 02:42 PM   #4
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Nope, i haven't, because place that did my order for ingredients forgot to send the Yeast packets. So I'm unfortunately on hold waiting for it to come in.

So if one packet in 2L makes 200billion, 2 packets in 2L makes 400 billion?

I only have a 2L flask and can use a stirplate on that. So I think i'll make a 2l starter with 2 packets of yeast.

Here is a question on the decanting. How do I do that...run the stirplate for 24 hrs. then move the falsk to the fridge, decant the top liquid, leave a little liquid in (obviously keep the yeast cake), shake it up and dump the yeast in the primary after coming up to room temp?

How long should i let it sit in fridge? another 24hrs?

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Old 01-17-2013, 02:51 PM   #5
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Go over to yeastcalc.com and use that tool to figure out what size steps you need for the batch. I've used a 2L flask, with old yeast, for a bigger brew this way. If you have a stirplate, then it will make things even easier/faster for you.

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Old 01-17-2013, 03:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golddiggie View Post
Go over to yeastcalc.com and use that tool to figure out what size steps you need for the batch. I've used a 2L flask, with old yeast, for a bigger brew this way. If you have a stirplate, then it will make things even easier/faster for you.
So I went over to yeastcalc.com. Typed in my numbers. I attached a screenshot of how I typed it in.

So I put 200billion as my starting number because that's what Wyeast says is in their smack packs. Is that what I should be putting there, and if I use two packets to put 400billion?

It says there if I put everything in correctly (those are the correct numbers for my recipe) that I need 1 packet in a 1.5l starter with stir plate to make 396billion of my needed 353billion? I hate that there are three different calculators that seem to give different information.


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Old 01-17-2013, 04:31 PM   #7
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Actually, on the Wyeast site, plus the packages, it's stated "100 Billion Yeast Cells"... No idea where you get 200 billion from, but you need two packets for that much cells (liquid yeast, dry yeast is typically 200 billion in the 11 gram package).

I would wait until your yeast arrives, since the production date is a rather important piece of information. Then run the numbers again.

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Old 01-17-2013, 04:42 PM   #8
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Sorry yes, 100billion, i have so many numbers floating in my head now. 200billion is what i should have there as i bought 2 packages of the yeast.

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Old 01-17-2013, 04:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ishredthecello View Post
Sorry yes, 100billion, i have so many numbers floating in my head now. 200billion is what i should have there as i bought 2 packages of the yeast.
I usually just get one package and do starters. Depending on where you got the yeast, you can save a good amount that way.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:09 PM   #10
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so for secondary starters, how much wort do you make for second and third stage? Can I make a 1ltr wort, stir, crash, refill with another 1ltr wort, stir, crash, refill with another 1ltr wort, stir, pitch?

Or

Should with each step should wort size increase. I never heard of stepping yeast starters, seems sensible.



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