Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Question on Stepping up Yeast
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-16-2012, 02:17 AM   #1
scubastan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 30
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default Question on Stepping up Yeast

Hi Everyone,

I have a question about stepping up yeast.
I have a un-opened vial of Whitelab 004 Irish Ale Yeast.

I plan on brewing a 5.25G Brown Ale with a Starting Gravity of 1.056

According to Mr Malty I need 205 Billions cells. I use a stirplate so it says I only need a 1L starter. I can just as easily go 2L or 3L starters.

A Whitelab vial has 35ml of liquid and ~70-120B cells.

Here is my question:
Using 70 Billion / 35ml you would get 2 Billion cells per ml of liquid.
2L is approximate 1/2 gallon. So using MrMalty Calculator. and entering
1.045 O.G. and 1/2 gallon I would need 20 Billion cells.

Does that mean if I use 10ml of yeast from the vial I will have enough yeast to ferment the starter? Then once its completely fermented on my stir plate I should have the 200 Billion cells I need for the 5gallon batch?

Sorry if this is confusing, but I hope you can follow along with what i'm trying to explain.

I know I could just use the entire vial to make my starter and be done with it. But if I only need 10ml of yeast from the vial, that means I can use that single vial for 3 different batches.

My current setup is to make larger starters then needed and then store the extra yeast for future use. But if I can use only 10ml I will save alot of valuable freezer space, and also risk less contamination.

__________________
scubastan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2012, 04:09 AM   #2
Hex23
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Illinois, Lake County
Posts: 858
Liked 43 Times on 43 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scubastan View Post
So using MrMalty Calculator. and entering
1.045 O.G. and 1/2 gallon I would need 20 Billion cells.
I'm not 100% sure I follow your logic, but it sounds like your treating the upper volume field like it's the volume of your starter. That's supposed to be the volume of your main wort (i.e. the batch size)
__________________
Hex23 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2012, 04:11 AM   #3
Hex23
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Illinois, Lake County
Posts: 858
Liked 43 Times on 43 Posts
Likes Given: 45

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by scubastan View Post
According to Mr Malty I need 205 Billions cells.
Don't forget to enter the date on the yeast. 205 Billion is the number if the yeast was made today (unlikely).
__________________
Hex23 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2012, 06:08 PM   #4
Scuba_Stan
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 26
Default

Figured out that answer to my question. Saw a link to a different Yeast calculator.
http://www.yeastcalc.com/

This calculator lets you enter the starting amount of yeast, and calculates the total you have based on the volume of your starter.

Alot of the other yeast calculators just go from the assumption that you use a fresh pack or vial and calculate based on ~100B cells.

Using the new calculator I can do the following.
If I draw 10ml of fresh yeast from the vial I should have about 20 Billion cells.
That is what I enter as my initial cell count.
then the 1st step will be a .5 Liter starter which will bring the count to 68 Billion.
Finally a 2nd step will be a 1.5 Liter starter which brings me to 224 Billion.


Basically I can now stretch a single Whitelab vial to 3 different brews without having to buy a new vial each time.

__________________
Scuba_Stan is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-16-2012, 06:14 PM   #5
Golddiggie
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Golddiggie's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Between here and there, and everywhere
Posts: 12,058
Liked 480 Times on 421 Posts
Likes Given: 266

Default

The reality of attempting to extract JUST 10ML from the vial is not likely. The vials are known to foam up like mothers when opened, spewing yeast out immediately.

I would suggest making your starter, for the batch you're brewing, a bit larger and reserve some of the yeast from that. Make another starter with the reserved (right away) and then store that amount for future use.

__________________
Hopping Tango Brewery

跟猴子比丟屎 ・ Gun HOE-tze bee DIO-se

On Tap: Caramel Ale, Mocha Porter II, MO SMaSH IPA
Waiting/Carbonating: 12.5% Wee Honey II, 8.9% Old Ale, English Brown Ale, Lickah ESB, Mocha Porter II
Fermenting
K1:
K2: Epic mead
K3: TripSix
On Deck: Caramel Ale
Aging:mead
Mead [bottled]:Oaked Wildflower Traditional, Mocha Madness, Blackberry Melomel, maple wine
Golddiggie is offline
Hex23 Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-17-2012, 01:00 AM   #6
Mpavlik22
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 316
Likes Given: 1

Default

That's an awful lot of work to stretch a vial for 3 batches.

I agree with gold diggie. Just make a larger starter and harvest a mason jar worth before pitching into your beer. You can easily get 10 generations out of a single vial (i wouldnt recommend gojng more). Here's it easily explained: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/entries/...-approach.html

__________________

"If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail"

Mpavlik22 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-17-2012, 01:13 AM   #7
kh54s10
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Tiverton, Rhode Island
Posts: 7,029
Liked 655 Times on 555 Posts
Likes Given: 170

Default

Another reason you might not want to use only part of the vial is that the remainder has been opened and exposed to infection, and will be losing viability. The longer you save it the more likely it will get infected and the less viable it will be, requiring larger starters.

I make a starter that is larger than what I need and make 4 vials of yeast to freeze and store. I use 20ml vials with 5ml yeast, 5ml glycerine and 10 ml water.

I now have 7 varieties of yeast in my bank with US05 packets and two others I have not banked yet.

__________________
kh54s10 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-17-2012, 06:05 AM   #8
CryoEng
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Rio Rico, AZ
Posts: 95
Liked 12 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kh54s10 View Post
Another reason you might not want to use only part of the vial is that the remainder has been opened and exposed to infection, and will be losing viability. The longer you save it the more likely it will get infected and the less viable it will be, requiring larger starters.

I make a starter that is larger than what I need and make 4 vials of yeast to freeze and store. I use 20ml vials with 5ml yeast, 5ml glycerine and 10 ml water.

I now have 7 varieties of yeast in my bank with US05 packets and two others I have not banked yet.
I plan on starting this process during my next session. (About a week from now.)

Thanks for the information. Another enjoyable aspect of brewing.

Cheers
__________________
CryoEng is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stepping up your yeast Placervillebrew Fermentation & Yeast 5 04-05-2012 12:32 AM
Yeast Starter Stepping Question DSmith Fermentation & Yeast 2 11-01-2011 12:41 PM
yeast starter stepping question. DHaught Fermentation & Yeast 11 06-17-2011 02:52 AM
Stepping up frozen yeast JeffStewart Fermentation & Yeast 2 05-21-2011 08:12 PM
Yeast Stepping in Carboy MNBugeater General Techniques 2 05-07-2008 04:56 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS