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Old 07-02-2012, 06:16 PM   #21
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I mean look - the poster above isn't completely wrong; I'm sure that pressure canning wort isn't ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ABSOLUTELY SAFE, but from all I've read, it's damn safe. As in, I'm probably more likely to blow up my propane tank while brewing than I am to get botulism from a carefully-canned jar of starter wort.
I think you'd have a higher chance at a free trip to the moon than to get botulism after cooking wort for 15 min at 240 degrees. Nothing in the wild lives at 240 degrees because the only way to achieve this temperature on planet earth is with a pressure cooker or autoclave (or maybe some specialized pressure equipment I don't know of). Seriously, thanks chief764 for spreading the word on pressure cooking starters. If done right, it really is safe.

Edit: I just want to be clear that when I talk about nothing living at 240, it relates to the boiling point based on atmospheric pressure. A pressure cooker changes the atmospheric pressure to allow the temp to get above 212.
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:31 PM   #22
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No they stay on fine. You don't have to put the rings on until after if you want, but if you lay the lids on top, by the time the cooker cools, the jars will have sealed.

I just put them on, don't screw them down completely, then tighten them once I open the cooker.
Actually it is my understanding that it's essential to have the lids on before canning - otherwise you won't get the seal made tightly by the vacuum caused as the temperature drops.

And I think you should have the rings on in the first place, to make sure that the lids don't get thrown off-kilter during the boil. The first time I tried canning, I only screwed the rings on part-way, and I had several of the jars fail to seal. The next time I turned them on all the way, but not tight (till the ring stopped turning, but with no force), and they all sealed.

And then once they are sealed the rings are totally optional, as the vacuum will hold the lid on tight (and if it doesn't it means you had a bad seal to begin with).
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Old 07-02-2012, 06:32 PM   #23
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What does that mean? I just leave the whole contraption alone to cool down after I turn off the burner. Are you supposed to do something else? I thought you wanted to make sure that you didn't cool the jars too quickly.
See below...


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No they stay on fine. You don't have to put the rings on until after if you want, but if you lay the lids on top, by the time the cooker cools, the jars will have sealed.

I just put them on, don't screw them down completely, then tighten them once I open the cooker.
Sweet! The way I had seen to do it was to boil the lids and then place them on the jars right after the lid was opened.

Instructions for the canner showed how to cool the thing with some water poured over it. This may work great for cooking food, but for canning liquids, all it does is to cause the jars to boil over. I wasn't sure if there was any "boiling" going on when you just let it cool on it's own.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:15 PM   #24
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Actually it is my understanding that it's essential to have the lids on before canning - otherwise you won't get the seal made tightly by the vacuum caused as the temperature drops.

And I think you should have the rings on in the first place, to make sure that the lids don't get thrown off-kilter during the boil. The first time I tried canning, I only screwed the rings on part-way, and I had several of the jars fail to seal. The next time I turned them on all the way, but not tight (till the ring stopped turning, but with no force), and they all sealed.

And then once they are sealed the rings are totally optional, as the vacuum will hold the lid on tight (and if it doesn't it means you had a bad seal to begin with).
Ya, I agree. I turn them all the way but don't tighten them until it's done and have only had one not seal.

Like you said the vacuum will keep the lids on and that's why I mentioned it, but you might as well screw the rings on too.
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Old 07-02-2012, 07:25 PM   #25
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FWIW I've not had a bad seal doing it the way I have done it after several batches... YMMV.

But I'll try with the lids on next time as it will make it an absolutely sanitary process, not to mention much easier.

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Old 07-02-2012, 08:10 PM   #26
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I have never used a dry yeast so I want to be sure I have the whole process down? After I safely get my starter canned I can then pull a perfectly sanitary jar out and pitch dry yeast into it? Like into a gallon carboy or something with an airlock on it? Should this be done the day before I brew?

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Old 07-02-2012, 08:15 PM   #27
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No, you're mistaking what this is used for.

For dry yeast, you don't want to make a starter (this is discussed elsewhere). Just re-hydrate the yeast and pitch.

The starter is for liquid yeast (e.g. Wyeast or White Labs). You want to put the yeast in a starter to grow to the quantity of yeast you need; refer to mrmalty.com or yeastcalc.com.

Many brewers make starters the "old fashioned" way, by boiling up some DME in water, cooling it, and putting the yeast into it. What's discussed in this thread is an alternate approach to make the starter in advance, safely.

Either way you make the starter, you'll put it into an appropriately sized container, from a liter to a gallon or more. If you've got one, use a stirplate, that grows the most yeast per starter volume. Usually an airlock is not recommended, because you want the yeast to get lots of oxygen, and an airlock keeps out the O2. Put a piece of foil or a foam stopper on the container to keep dust and critters out.

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Old 07-02-2012, 08:43 PM   #28
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This thread is inspiring me to try some new things and buy new toys.

So what is the shelf life of these canned worts?

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Old 07-02-2012, 08:57 PM   #29
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This thread is inspiring me to try some new things and buy new toys.

So what is the shelf life of these canned worts?
Mine never sit around for more than 6 months (especially when I "step up" starters), but I'm sure they would be fine for much longer than that.
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Old 07-03-2012, 02:18 AM   #30
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Homercidal - This is the kind of thing that worries me, what do you mean by "cover jar quickly"? Having the jars exposed to the air after cooking is exactly the problem with improper canning. THAT IS HOW THE SPORES GET IN! Not only that, but 15 minutes AT 15 psi is not sufficient when home canning. All sources recommend 25 minutes for liquids. While 15 minutes is sufficient in a proper autoclave (but most people use 20 minutes for 1 liter), the uncertainty of a home setting requires a few more minutes at temperature to ensure sterilization. Your comment about it not being rocket science may be true in regards to difficulty of the work, but safety with proper canning methods are just as important as rocket science.

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Cook in a pressure canner for 15 minutes at 15 lbs. Cover jars quickly after pressure has dropped and allow to cool and seal. It's not rocket science.

People get sick when they don't can properly, meaning they do a hot water bath instead of pressure canning foods when they need to.
To be clear everyone, the post I made on page 1 was a bit of hyperbole to scare off those who are not sure what they are doing. The post above shows an EXCELLENT example of what I am talking about. I knew if I waited long enough, people would prove my point. Also, I have not seen a single mention of the fact that canning times NEED to be lengthened when cooking at altitude due to decrease in atmospheric pressure.

Scoundrel - Not to be too nitpicky, but there are organisms that can survive the autoclave, especially for short periods of time

This is through Google Translate, hopefully it works.
http://translate.google.com/translat...sation&act=url

At if that is not enought, here is another one.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrolobus_fumarii
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