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Old 07-01-2012, 11:45 PM   #11
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I did a write-up here, with pictures: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-harvesting-non-slant-method-280194/#post3473893

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Old 07-02-2012, 01:55 AM   #12
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and what would be the difference between canned wort, or canned or bottled extract bought from a brewing shop?



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Old 07-02-2012, 05:21 AM   #13
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If you are pressure canning wort, it would be best not to sample the starter, nor to empty it into your wort. Even decanting the starter could still have enough botulism toxin to be harmful. I know that everyone says that you won't get botulism from pressure canned wort, and that somehow canned food are magically "sterile", but once the boiling stops, and fresh air moves into the canner, there is a chance that Clostridium botulinum spores could make it into your wort. Regular wort is not acidic enough to prevent the growth of C. botulinum and since you would be adding the contents of your start after the boil, the toxin would not be denatured by heating. This is straight from the fda website "Most of the 10 to 30 outbreaks that are reported annually in the United States are associated with inadequately processed, home-canned foods [...]". I know this is "chicken little" thinking, but seriously it is worth it? Probably not. Even refridgeration may not be enough, as the Colorado State University wesite states the 4 of the 7 types can grow at 38F. Seriously, people die from this quite often, and the bacterium is everywhere in the soil and floating around in the air. Will your starter get contamined with botulism toxin, probably not. Will I take the chance, no!

http://www.fda.gov/food/foodsafety/foodborneillness/foodborneillnessfoodbornepathogensnaturaltoxins/badbugbook/ucm070000.htm

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6026a5.htm?s_cid=mm6026a5_x

http://www.ext.colostate.edu/pubs/foodnut/09305.html/
That's ridiculous. Pressure canning is fine. 10-30 outbreaks is not 'common.' It happens when people can carrots and beef stew without pc. Have you ever driven a car on the freeway?
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Old 07-02-2012, 01:40 PM   #14
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That's ridiculous. Pressure canning is fine. 10-30 outbreaks is not 'common.' It happens when people can carrots and beef stew without pc. Have you ever driven a car on the freeway?
Over 40,000 Americans die in traffic accidents every year.

443,000 die from tobacco every year.

75,000 deaths are alcohol related every year.

10-30 outbreaks of botulism is actually a success story.
It's nuts what people pick and choose to freak out over.
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Old 07-02-2012, 04:39 PM   #15
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Cook in a pressure canner for 15 minutes at 15 lbs. Cover jars quickly after pressure has dropped and allow to cool and seal. It's not rocket science.

People get sick when they don't can properly, meaning they do a hot water bath instead of pressure canning foods when they need to.

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Old 07-02-2012, 05:15 PM   #16
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Botulism can't live in the presence of oxygen that's why boiling and vacuum sealing jars alone presents a small risk. If you're pressure cooking for 15+ minutes at 240+ degrees everything is killed in the jars... everything.

Saying ambient air getting into a sealed cooker could cause botulism is silly.

That is unless you pressure canned them, waited for the cooker to cool, opened the jars, boiled the jars again and then re-vacuum sealed them to remove the oxygen. Nobody would do that.

The only time I dump pressure canned wort is if the jar didn't seal.

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Old 07-02-2012, 05:18 PM   #17
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Cook in a pressure canner for 15 minutes at 15 lbs. Cover jars quickly after pressure has dropped and allow to cool and seal. It's not rocket science.
I agree but I put the lids on the jars before putting them in the pressure cooker. That way they're sealed at the end before opening the cooker.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:28 PM   #18
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I agree but I put the lids on the jars before putting them in the pressure cooker. That way they're sealed at the end before opening the cooker.
Hmm... I thought they said to boil the lids separately. I'll have to check again.

Don't the lids come off the jars in the canner?
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:28 PM   #19
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Cover jars quickly after pressure has dropped and allow to cool and seal.
What does that mean? I just leave the whole contraption alone to cool down after I turn off the burner. Are you supposed to do something else? I thought you wanted to make sure that you didn't cool the jars too quickly.

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People get sick when they don't can properly, meaning they do a hot water bath instead of pressure canning foods when they need to.
Right, or don't can at a high enough pressure or for long enough (or, per the linked website from Colorado, fail to account for elevation changes), or don't check to make sure the seals took.

I mean look - the poster above isn't completely wrong; I'm sure that pressure canning wort isn't ONE HUNDRED PERCENT ABSOLUTELY SAFE, but from all I've read, it's damn safe. As in, I'm probably more likely to blow up my propane tank while brewing than I am to get botulism from a carefully-canned jar of starter wort.
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Old 07-02-2012, 05:58 PM   #20
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Hmm... I thought they said to boil the lids separately. I'll have to check again.

Don't the lids come off the jars in the canner?

No they stay on fine. You don't have to put the rings on until after if you want, but if you lay the lids on top, by the time the cooker cools, the jars will have sealed.

I just put them on, don't screw them down completely, then tighten them once I open the cooker.


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