The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Phenols (medicinal / Bandaid) normal for a tripel with the 3787?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2012, 03:44 PM   #1
DerBraumeister
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 80
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Phenols (medicinal / Bandaid) normal for a tripel with the 3787?

Hello

I am heavily disappointed by my last brew, a belgian Tripel with the Wyeast 3787. I bottled the beer two weeks ago and since I wanted to repitch the yeast, I opened a bottle last weekend and behold; Phenols. Medicinal, bandaid, disgusting. Needless to say, I threw away the yeast!

I have had this happening in a Kolsch and the phenols did not age out. But I wanted to ask if this could be normal for a young belgian Tripel. (I have picked up some phenols in commercial tripels btw.)

Here is the process:
-Total fermentetion volume of 6 gal.
-100% German Pilsener for a starting gravity of 1.065.
-Mash temp 149.
-I used tab water-our water supply is not chlorinated (they use ozon and there is not the slightest hint of chlorine in the smell of the water)
-I do not use sanitisers based on chlorine (I use Chemipro Oxi)
-Batch sparging.
-90 Min boil
-Irish moss
-No chill.
-1.5 quart real wort starter overnight with a fresh pack of 3787
-At high krausen, I added 25 gravity points of table sugar dissolved in boiling water to reach a theoretical OG of 1.080
-Ambient temperature of fermentation in my cellar: 67 F
-On the third day of primary fermentation I wrapped a sheet of sponge around the fermenter as an isolation to let the temp rise for proper attenuation.
-Bottled after 3 Weeks in primary (the fermentation was over after 2 weeks).
-Final gravity: 1.008.

When I added the sugar to the fermenter, I noticed some sulfur but no phenols to mention. When I bottled, the beer had a strong banana aroma.

So, what do you think?

Have I just produced 6 gallons of nail polish remover, or is this normal for a 9% abv belgian tripel, that has only been on bottle for a week?

Regards, Der Braumeister

__________________
DerBraumeister is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 03:54 PM   #2
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 5,570
Liked 512 Times on 422 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

Though I am not familiar with the particular yeast strain you used some phenolic character is definitely a part of many strong Belgian beers. It is not a part of Kölsch, however so I must assume that some part of your process is causing phenol production and if it's doing it to your Kölsch it is probably doing it to your Belgians as well. If the level of phenols was 'disgusting' the first thing I would look at is sanitation as this strongly suggests infection with a wild yeast strain carrying the POF (phenolic off flavor) gene. Some of the Belgian strains carry this gene (as does Bavarian wheat beer yeast) but none of them should produce phenolics at the 'disgusting' level.

Obviously the thing to do is let it age. New beer stinks for a time. If it doesn't dissipate with time then I'd start with sanitation.

__________________
ajdelange is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #3
g-star
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: PA
Posts: 640
Liked 62 Times on 50 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

I agree with the infection assessment. No-chill brewing is a risky proposition for just this reason.

__________________
g-star is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 04:52 PM   #4
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,205
Liked 412 Times on 313 Posts
Likes Given: 466

Default

I use that yeast a lot and have never gotten those flavors. I'd say you either have chlorine issues or an infection.

__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 04:59 PM   #5
beergolf
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
beergolf's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: collingswood, nj
Posts: 3,941
Liked 356 Times on 292 Posts
Likes Given: 109

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny View Post
I use that yeast a lot and have never gotten those flavors. I'd say you either have chlorine issues or an infection.
I also use it alot and don't get those flavors.

Quote:
Have I just produced 6 gallons of nail polish remover, or is this normal for a 9% abv belgian tripel, that has only been on bottle for a week?
For a 9% tripel you really should give it more time than one week. Let it sit for a few more weeks and taste one. Nothing about your ferment temp makes me think that you created fusels. If it does not mellow in a few more weeks, it could be an infection or chlorine issues.
__________________
beergolf is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 05:09 PM   #6
Willie3
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Willie3's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Hackettstown, New Jersey
Posts: 769
Liked 7 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default

Most likely not an infection, especially if you are careful and sanitary in your process. Look at the water. I bet somewhere in your process you introduce cloramines via water source. Make sure that you use water that is filtered or that is free of chlorine from start to finish. I have discovered that even small sources can cause bandaid beer, especially with strains that are prone to have the POF gene. Even as much as rinsing your carboy bottles out with tap water has caused it in my experience. More bad news too, Phenols never go away!!

__________________

Willie3

NJ HOPZ - North Jersey Homebrewers Organization of Praciticing Zymurgisits

FINAL GRAVITY PODCAST PERSONALITY

I brew therefor I am!

Willie3 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 05:23 PM   #7
ajdelange
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: McLean/Ogden, Virginia/Quebec
Posts: 5,570
Liked 512 Times on 422 Posts
Likes Given: 14

Default

I find it interesting that 3 out of 5 responses suggested chlorine though the OP says his supplier does not use it.

__________________
ajdelange is offline
neosapien Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 05:28 PM   #8
duboman
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Glenview, IL
Posts: 5,950
Liked 448 Times on 418 Posts
Likes Given: 200

Default

One week is nowhere near enough time to evaluate this beer

Oxi is NOT a sanitizer!

Infection is highly possible if that's what you thought you sanitized with

__________________
Nothing Left to do but smile and drink beer.....

The Commune Brewing Company-Perfecting the "art" of beer since 2010
duboman is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 05:36 PM   #9
Denny
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Eugene OR
Posts: 4,205
Liked 412 Times on 313 Posts
Likes Given: 466

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by duboman View Post
one week is nowhere near enough time to evaluate this beer

oxi is not a sanitizer!

Infection is highly possible if that's what you thought you sanitized with
+1.060
__________________

Life begins at 60....1.060, that is!

www.dennybrew.com

http://www.experimentalbrew.com - the website for the book "Experimental Homebrewing"...coming Nov. 2014

Denny is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2012, 05:54 PM   #10
daksin
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
daksin's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 4,093
Liked 271 Times on 237 Posts
Likes Given: 323

Default

Also, if you got any oxyclean in your beer, that's likely the source of any phenols as well- but yes, oxyclean is definitely not a sanitizer. Also, at 1 week in bottles you're probably also experiencing a ton of alcohol heat. Nothing you can do at this point but to let it ride- see where it is in a couple months.

__________________

I can't be arsed to keep up this list of what's in the fermenters, but hey, check out the cool brewery I own!

twitter.com/2kidsbrewing .. facebook.com/2kidsbrewing .. 2kidsbrewing.com

daksin is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bandaid/medicinal flavor redfox97 All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 14 10-11-2012 04:13 PM
tripel wyeast 3787 sleeping 2brew1cup Fermentation & Yeast 28 12-14-2011 01:45 AM
Tripel with Wyeast 3787 fermenting VERY slowly BlackDogBrewing Fermentation & Yeast 5 11-29-2010 12:43 PM
bandaid taste lostspring Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 05-09-2009 08:39 PM
Can I ferment a belgian tripel at normal temp (~72F) krausenmustache Recipes/Ingredients 2 05-01-2009 01:57 PM