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Old 05-07-2010, 03:51 PM   #1
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Default Nottingham and Tartness

I have had two beers, that I used nottingham on..both were brown ales with lots of roasted or caramel malts, and both fermented between 62 and 64 degrees. They have a very cloying tartness that I notice, but some folks love it and the beers are very dry. I would like to avoid this tartness.

I just made a cream ale with nottingham, and I let the fermentation get to 69 degrees at it's peak, you can't hide off flavors in a cream ale, and there is no sign of tartness or off flavors at all.

I am wondering if anybody else has noticed this with nottingham, and if there is a way I can avoid it? My thinking is to bring it up near 70 degrees towards the end of fermentation....or maybe it is a dark/roasted malt issue with Nottingham?


I did email a question regarding this tartness to danstar today and I will post the answer on this thread if I get one.

Not sure.

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Old 05-07-2010, 04:05 PM   #2
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... or maybe a dark grain problem when combined with your water....

I had a friend in VA (HBT's "Dude") who claimed that he absolutely could not brew dark beers using his tap water because they always had off flavors.

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Old 05-07-2010, 04:09 PM   #3
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... or maybe a dark grain problem when combined with your water....

I had a friend in VA (HBT's "Dude") who claimed that he absolutely could not brew dark beers using his tap water because they always had off flavors.
I have brewed great stouts with US-05 before with my water, with no tartness. But I do think you may be on to something. I have now began filtering my water, so maybe it is a dark grain, and water issue. A quick online search showed that other folks also get a tartness sometimes from notty.

I am concerned, because I plan on using notty for my Arrogant Bastard clone tomorow and I don't want tart...although the hops would probably mask it.
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Old 05-07-2010, 04:15 PM   #4
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I suspect water issues as well, I cannot brew any light colored or hoppy beers with my tap water, a malty red or stout is great with it, but for most other beers I mix RO with tap. I ferment most of my Notty beers at 60 degrees and have no tartness at all, they come out very clean.
Your water may be more suited to the lighter beers where mine is the opposite, get a water analysis done so you know for sure and adjust with salts or RO to correct for the beer being brewed

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Old 05-07-2010, 04:17 PM   #5
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I'm no chemical expert, but I'm almost certain dark grains will make your beer more acidic. I've only begun reading on the subject of water chemistry, but I think adding the right levels of the relevant minerals helps to curb those effects. Also, you mentioned your beers turned out pretty dry. It's my experience that carbonic acids that come from CO2 carbonation tend to stick out more when the beer is particularly dry. So that may be contributing on top of the dark grains to a general tartness. If these were all grain beers, try mashing a couple of degrees hotter to get a bit more residual sugars which will mask the carbonic tartness a bit better.

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Old 05-07-2010, 04:46 PM   #6
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I am going to mash my Arrogant Bastard at 154 and hope for the best! I am also hoping that the addition of charcoal filtered water and the usage of my fancy new wort chiller, make my latest brews my best yet.

I am going to have to send in a sample of water for analysis as I can't get my hands on a water report for some reason.

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Old 05-07-2010, 05:24 PM   #7
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If Notty takes your final gravity down pretty low (like 1.080 or below), then my experience is that it will be dry tasting with tartness (same beer/wort using a different, less attenuating yeast finishing at 1.011 left me a rounded, fuller flavor with no hint of tartness). If you are not able to use 2 different yeasts on the same wort like I do, then another way to test and see if it is a water/dark grain issue or Notty would be to mash your next beer at a higher temp (like 158-ish degrees) and do a mash-out after 60 minutes to lock in dextrins and unfermentables. Then rack the beer off the yeast after not more than 10 days in primary and cold crash. This would likely prevent Notty from fully attenuating the beer and keep your final gravity above 1.010. If the tartness is gone, then Notty is likely imparting the tartness thru its well-known ability to fully attenuate; if it is still there, then the water/dark malt issue prolly deserves a closer look.

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Old 05-07-2010, 08:21 PM   #8
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I have an answer for you that is likely the cure for your issue - this happened to me with notty, and once with US-05.

Whenever I ferment a dry ale using either of these yeasts I often get a tartness that is difficult to describe. Lo and behold, the tartness goes away completely after about 10 weeks in the bottle and I am left with an awesome beer.

I dont know why, but this yeast appears to leave behind detectable tartness that is more noticible when there is not as many dextrins (or excessive hops) to mask it.

Seriously, give it a few more weeks and you might be suprised. Kind of sucks to bottle condition that long though.

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Old 05-07-2010, 08:23 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjones17 View Post
I have an answer for you that is likely the cure for your issue - this happened to me with notty, and once with US-05.

Whenever I ferment a dry ale using either of these yeasts I often get a tartness that is difficult to describe. Lo and behold, the tartness goes away completely after about 10 weeks in the bottle and I am left with an awesome beer.

I dont know why, but this yeast appears to leave behind detectable tartness that is more noticible when there is not as many dextrins (or excessive hops) to mask it.

Seriously, give it a few more weeks and you might be suprised. Kind of sucks to bottle condition that long though.
In homebrewing, just like most things in life, time heals everything. Well, time hurts most IPA's!
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Old 05-09-2010, 04:38 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by permo View Post
In homebrewing, just like most things in life, time heals everything. Well, time hurts most IPA's!
Yeah true. I have only made 1 IPA that actually got better with time. It had a crapload of aroma hops though.
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