Kegconnection Complete Starter Kit and More Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > "Nothing that can hurt you can live in beer"- Confirmed!

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-12-2013, 02:18 PM   #1
HeadyKilowatt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Glendie (outside Fredericksburg), VA
Posts: 253
Liked 40 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default "Nothing that can hurt you can live in beer"- Confirmed!

We've all heard it and read it, many of us have said it ourselves- your infected beer will not hurt you, as nothing pathogenic can live in beer. But I have never seen any hard data to back this up.

Which is why I was exited to see a paper being given at a regional archaeology conference this weekend in which the researcher was investigating the old hypothesis that fermentation was used historically, and dating back to ancient times, to make dirty or stagnant water potable.

The researcher made two one-gallon batches of unhopped wort with an OG of 1.054, pitched an appropriate amount of yeast, and infected one batch with E. coli. Fermentation proceeded for six days. After fermentation, he conducted two tests (which I can't really describe- I'm an archaeologist, not a biologist) for the presence of the pathogen in the infected batch. Both tests came back negative. Fermentation had killed the E. coli, or at least prevented it from establishing itself and ceased its reproductive cycle such that the colony died.

I went for a beer with the researcher later and talked about the experiment and knocked around ideas for what was happening here (is it the alcohol that "killed" the pathogen or something else in the fermentation process? and did it really "kill" it, or just out-compete it?) and ideas for future experiments that could refine the data and allow for a clearer picture of what's happening.

Anyway, even though the results are preliminary, I'm excited to see some hard data backing up the idea that nothing harmful can survive in beer (not that I ever doubted it, but it is cool to see it backed up with experimental data). I encouraged the researcher to publish his data and get it into the brewing literature in addition to the archaeology/history world, so hopefully we can all see some of this info soon. Also, if anyone is aware of any other experiments on this phenomenon that have been conducted, please post them here and I can pass them on to the fellow doing the research.

Keep on homebrewing- you never know what's in the water!

__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa
HeadyKilowatt is offline
4
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:21 PM   #2
BxBrewer
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 448
Liked 57 Times on 41 Posts
Likes Given: 37

Default

Look for a video called "How beer saved the world". Cool stuff.

__________________
BxBrewer is offline
stinkmuis Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:21 PM   #3
MrNatural
The Original, beware of imposters.
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
MrNatural's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Elverta, CA
Posts: 415
Liked 56 Times on 31 Posts
Likes Given: 44

Default

Interesting. Was a taste test also conducted?

__________________

I come awake........with the gift for womankind.
You're still asleep.......but the gift don't seem to mind.
~Ian Dury

MrNatural is offline
stinkmuis Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:22 PM   #4
Sheldon
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: woodbridge, va
Posts: 1,157
Liked 42 Times on 35 Posts
Likes Given: 28

Default kewl research

Thanks for the info. It is reassuring to find there is some research to back what we have long suspected!

__________________
Sheldon is offline
stinkmuis Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:25 PM   #5
HeadyKilowatt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Glendie (outside Fredericksburg), VA
Posts: 253
Liked 40 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNatural View Post
Interesting. Was a taste test also conducted?
No, he wanted to do a taste test, but apparently the folks in the biology lab he was using get all weird about people drinking stuff that's been used in pathogen experiments.
__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa
HeadyKilowatt is offline
stinkmuis Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:30 PM   #6
homebrewdad
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 3,033
Liked 319 Times on 239 Posts
Likes Given: 227

Default

Over/under on the number of posts it takes for someone to point out that, hypothetically, you could create a wort starter, infect it with botulism, then can it incorrectly, thus creating a possible beerborne pathogen (not that such has ever been observed)?

Or the fact that beer doesn't kill norovirus, so if you crap in a bottle, you could potentially contract it.


Real world: beer is perfectly safe. But somebody invariably points out that you can't say its statistically impossible, since lab conditions can create a few situations where one might get sick.

__________________
Homebrew Dad - blogging about making my own beer and raising a lot of kids.
Check out the priming sugar calculator and the beer calorie calculator.

Fermenting: nothing
Lagering: Swarthy Satyr (traditional bock)
Bottled: Royal Goblin (Hoppy Hobgoblin rendition), Treasure Type "T" (oatmeal toffee stout), Enchantress (big Irish red ale), Frostfire (Oktoberfest), Thundersmoke brown ale
homebrewdad is offline
2
People Like This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:33 PM   #7
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2711 Times on 1629 Posts
Likes Given: 3484

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheldon View Post
Thanks for the info. It is reassuring to find there is some research to back what we have long suspected!
There's been a TON of research backing it up, I know, I've posted a lot of it on here through the years....

Good stuff HeadyKilowatt

__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
stinkmuis Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:34 PM   #8
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,804
Liked 2711 Times on 1629 Posts
Likes Given: 3484

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by homebrewdad View Post
Over/under on the number of posts it takes for someone to point out that, hypothetically, you could create a wort starter, infect it with botulism, then can it incorrectly, thus creating a possible beerborne pathogen (not that such has ever been observed)?

Or the fact that beer doesn't kill norovirus, so if you crap in a bottle, you could potentially contract it.


Real world: beer is perfectly safe. But somebody invariably points out that you can't say its statistically impossible, since lab conditions can create a few situations where one might get sick.
You know it......it happens in every thread.
__________________

Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew

Revvy is offline
stinkmuis Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:37 PM   #9
HeadyKilowatt
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Glendie (outside Fredericksburg), VA
Posts: 253
Liked 40 Times on 32 Posts
Likes Given: 33

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by homebrewdad View Post
Real world: beer is perfectly safe. But somebody invariably points out that you can't say its statistically impossible, since lab conditions can create a few situations where one might get sick.
Exactly. And that's the point of the research- that under "normal" conditions, nothing harmful is going to infect beer, and that fermentation can in fact make water of suspect quality potable. It's certainly possible that you could make a beer with a harmful pathogen, but you'd pretty much have to try to do it- it's very unlikely to happen through normal brewing processes and fermentation conditions.
__________________
You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. -Frank Zappa
HeadyKilowatt is offline
stinkmuis Likes This 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-12-2013, 02:37 PM   #10
stinkmuis
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Enkhuizen Holland, Noord Holland
Posts: 75
Liked 21 Times on 12 Posts
Likes Given: 78

Default

some more proof :-)

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/foun...easure-394301/

__________________
stinkmuis is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Flavorful "Small" or "Session" beer. Less base malt? killsurfcity All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 9 04-22-2012 01:25 PM
"yeast can't live in a high pressure environment" ? Slobberchops Bottling/Kegging 13 02-14-2012 07:03 AM
The old saying was always "Live hard, die young" (RIP Whitney Houston) niquejim General Chit Chat 21 02-12-2012 06:18 PM
Beer Smith Software - Hops "Boil" or "Aroma"? FensterBos Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 2 07-02-2011 05:13 PM
Confirmed: John McCain is a socialist flip flopper. Wanted to "spread the wealth" i schneemann Debate Forum 20 10-27-2008 07:04 PM