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Old 09-13-2012, 03:19 AM   #1
bbaxter
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Default no fermentation

I used an Oktoberfest recipe but can't ferment at cool temps so used an Ale yeast, Danstar BRY-97. I rehydrated by boiling 1 cup of water, cooled to 100 degrees and dumped into water. Let sit for 20 minutes and pitched in the wort at 70 degrees. As of now it has been 48 hours and no fermentation has happened. The OG was 1.052 and is still the same. No CO2 bubbles and no change in gravity. This is only my 4th brew and the first time I have used dry yeast. The yeast stayed in the fridge and my LHBS always has high quality ingredients so I don't believe it was old. Any ideas on where I went wrong? Should I re-pitch? Thanks.

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:39 AM   #2
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I've had a few laggy brews that took 3 days to get started. Did you pitch it with any yeast nutrient/energizer? I bought some for yeast starters ($3.00 at LHBS) and noticed it has made a measurable difference. Also, did you aerate the wort well before pitching? I suppose you could get some DME, some nutrient and another pack of yeast, make a starter in a sterilized jar and repitch after letting it sit for a day or two. A quarter or half liter is probably all you would need to kick start it. There are some great posts around here about making simple starters, so they're worth checking out even if for future brews.

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Old 09-13-2012, 05:03 AM   #3
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you might want to repitch. i've used dry for 98% of my brews over the years, and don't rehydrate, and they come out fine, btw.

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Old 09-13-2012, 05:10 AM   #4
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I'm a retard, drunk posted and the info was way wrong

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Old 09-13-2012, 06:22 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jestmaty
Isn't 100* a bit on the high side of acceptable yeast temp? Do you think you killed em?

Up until just a week ago, I've brewed probably 30 all grain batches with dry yeast only... never rehydrated, just pitched upon 65-75* wort and all of them took off. Dry yeast has a ton of nutrient reserves in waiting... so a 'rehydration' is rarely necessary I'm told..

Last Sunday, I used my first smack pack and it did great! Today, I used a WL #038 ale yeast for my Holiday Ale (first time ever to make a starter via stirplate) and 7 hours later, I've got krausen and airlock acitivity.

My gut feeling (having used NOTHING but dry yeast for the last year and a half) is that you were on the high end of rehydration temp and killed off some of the yeast. Oh... btw.. the more I read, the more I find out that your yeast slurry temp should be close to your wort temp for optimum take-off of fermentation.

You said you threw 100* yeast slurry into 70* wort. I try not to shock my yeast with such a variance.

If you still have nothing after this long, I'd swirl the carboy and aerate it up a bit. See if that wakes up the yeast that ARE viable.
You didn't really just say that, right? The next time you grab a bag of dry yeast, flip it over and read the back. Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure the rehydration temp is ~100F for 20-30 minutes. Which, by the end of that time, should be closer to 80F. While you may have had success in the past just winging it (and I also have just tossed the pack w/out rehydrating a few times), make sure you can follow the manufacturer's directions before telling someone they're AFU for doing just that.

But, to the OP, I recommend repitching if you haven't seen activity by now.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:36 AM   #6
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try pitching dry without rehydrating, I always get fermentation signs within a few hours

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Old 09-13-2012, 06:40 AM   #7
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Sometimes the yeast take their time multiplying and getting ready before they go to work. Sometimes it takes as long as 72 hrs for any visible activity. I'd certainly repitch if there's still no activity by tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jestmaty View Post
Isn't 100* a bit on the high side of acceptable yeast temp? Do you think you killed em?

Up until just a week ago, I've brewed probably 30 all grain batches with dry yeast only... never rehydrated, just pitched upon 65-75* wort and all of them took off. Dry yeast has a ton of nutrient reserves in waiting... so a 'rehydration' is rarely necessary I'm told..

Last Sunday, I used my first smack pack and it did great! Today, I used a WL #038 ale yeast for my Holiday Ale (first time ever to make a starter via stirplate) and 7 hours later, I've got krausen and airlock acitivity.

My gut feeling (having used NOTHING but dry yeast for the last year and a half) is that you were on the high end of rehydration temp and killed off some of the yeast. Oh... btw.. the more I read, the more I find out that your yeast slurry temp should be close to your wort temp for optimum take-off of fermentation.

You said you threw 100* yeast slurry into 70* wort. I try not to shock my yeast with such a variance.

If you still have nothing after this long, I'd swirl the carboy and aerate it up a bit. See if that wakes up the yeast that ARE viable.
No, 100° water is perfect for rehydration. You might find this interesting. It's written by Dr Clayton Cone, one of the foremost authorities on yeast, who works(ed?) for Lallemand yeast (makers of the yeast being used by the OP). His research is what led to the rehydration instructions found on the back of every packet of Lallemand yeast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clayton Cone
Let me give you some facts regarding rehydration and you can decide for
yourself where you want to compromise.
Every strain of yeast has its own optimum rehydration temperature. All of
them range between 95 F to 105F. Most of them closer to 105F. The dried
yeast cell wall is fragile and it is the first few minutes (possibly
seconds) of rehydration that the warm temperature is critical while it is
reconstituting its cell wall structure.

As you drop the initial temperature of the water from 95 to 85 or 75 or 65F
the yeast leached out more and more of its insides damaging the each cell.
The yeast viability also drops proportionally. At 95 – 105 F, there is
100% recovery of the viable dry yeast. At 60F, there can be as much as 60%
dead cells.

The water should be tap water with the normal amount of hardness present.
The hardness is essential for good recovery. 250 -500 ppm hardness is
ideal. This means that deionized or distilled water should not be used.
Ideally, the warm rehydration water should contain about 0.5 – 1.0% yeast
extract

For the initial few minutes (perhaps seconds) of rehydration, the yeast
cell wall cannot differentiate what passes through the wall. Toxic
materials like sprays, hops, SO2 and sugars in high levels, that the yeast
normally can selectively keep from passing through its cell wall rush right
in and seriously damage the cells. The moment that the cell wall is
properly reconstituted, the yeast can then regulate what goes in and out of
the cell. That is why we hesitate to recommend rehydration in wort or
must. Very dilute wort seems to be OK.

We recommend that the rehydrated yeast be added to the wort within 30
minutes. We have built into each cell a large amount of glycogen and
trehalose that give the yeast a burst of energy to kick off the growth
cycle when it is in the wort. It is quickly used up if the yeast is
rehydrated for more than 30 minutes. There is no damage done here if it is
not immediatly add to the wort. You just do not get the added benefit of
that sudden burst of energy. We also recommend that you attemperate the
rehydrated yeast to with in 15F of the wort before adding to the wort.
Warm yeast into a cold wort will cause many of the yeast to produce petite
mutants that will never grow or ferment properly and will cause them to
produce H2S. The attemperation can take place over a very brief period by
adding, in encrements, a small amount of the cooler wort to the rehydrated
yeast.

Many times we find that warm water is added to a very cold container that
drops the rehydrating water below the desired temperature.

Sometimes refrigerated, very cold, dry yeast is added directly to the warm
water with out giving it time to come to room temperature. The initial
water intering the cell is then cool.

How do many beer and wine makers have successful fermentations when they
ignore all the above? I believe that it is just a numbers game. Each gram
of Active Dry Yeast contains about 20 billion live yeast cells. If you
slightly damage the cells, they have a remarkable ability to recover in the
rich wort. If you kill 60% of the cell you still have 8 billion cells per
gram that can go on to do the job at a slower rate.

The manufacturer of Active Dry Beer Yeast would be remiss if they offered
rehydration instructions that were less than the very best that their data
indicated.

One very important factor that the distributor and beer maker should keep
in mind is that Active Dry Yeast is dormant or inactive and not inert, so
keep refrigerated at all times. Do not store in a tin roofed warehouse
that becomes an oven or on a window sill that gets equally hot.

Active Dry Yeast looses about 20% of its activity in a year when it is
stored at 75 F and only 4% when refrigerated.

The above overview of rehydration should tell you that there is a very best
way to rehydrate. It should also tell you where you are safe in adapting
the rehydration procedure to fit your clients.

Clayton Cone.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:09 PM   #8
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Thanks for the responses. I thinl I will check today and re-pitch if no changes.

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Old 09-13-2012, 07:45 PM   #9
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great post juan

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