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Old 02-15-2011, 02:43 PM   #11
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In my opinion and experience, if you still have krausen, you are still fermenting.
Well, I used to believe that too, UNTIL, I had a wit beer that I pitched bottle harvested Hoegaarden yeast on and it STILL had a 2" krausen on it three weeks later. I took a grav reading and it had reached terminal gravity, 1.010. And it did it in subsequent batches as well.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:13 PM   #12
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How was head retention on that beer Revvy?

The only reason I ask is because the beer I brew that has awesome head retention is the one that has krausen for weeks. In fact the krausen just fell a week ago, and I brewed it in mid January (16th). edit: if it was a wit, you may have had some ingredients that could cause low head retention so it may not be the best gauge of my hypothesis. Perhaps I'll PM you my recipe and see what your results are? Let me know if interested.

My opinion is that we're both trying to convey the same methodology to the new brewers; relax, don't worry, have a home brew. Wait it out. Everything will be just fine.

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Old 02-15-2011, 03:19 PM   #13
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How was head retention on that beer Revvy?

The only reason I ask is because the beer I brew that has awesome head retention is the one that has krausen for weeks. In fact the krausen just fell a week ago, and I brewed it in mid January (16th). edit: if it was a wit, you may have had some ingredients that could cause low head retention so it may not be the best gauge of my hypothesis. Perhaps I'll PM you my recipe and see what your results are? Let me know if interested.

My opinion is that we're both trying to convey the same methodology to the new brewers; relax, don't worry, have a home brew. Wait it out. Everything will be just fine.
It's a great beer. One of my best recipes. The head was consistent with the style. Irrc it stayed around as much as hoegaarden itself does. And left protein lines as the beer was swallowed.
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Old 02-15-2011, 03:32 PM   #14
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First, I have seperated the idea that the airlock bubbling and fermentation are two seperate things. I only use the airlock as a guide and my experience is that this is the first time I have had bubbling going steady for 11 days and at the same rate. It was something new to me being much less experienced in brewing than most people on this board. I thought while I was at the computer and this scenario was fresh in my mind I would get another opinion.

Again there are two batches brewed on the same day with very little variance in technique. Batch #1 is in a glass carboy. Batch # 2 is in a plastic fermentation bucket. I live in the country so there are no vibrations from the street and neither beer has been moved since I placed them there originally. EDIT: I'm using a blow off tube into a bucket of water for both beers. I was going to switch off to an airlock upon transfer.

When I get home from work tonight I will take a hydrometer sample from each and gather ambient temp and report back.

Thats all I can think of right now.

EDIT: My apologies if I have wasted anyones time.

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Old 02-15-2011, 03:46 PM   #15
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Definitely not JLW, the reason for this board is for discussion. Without the discussion this place would just be a giant FAQ, and that would be quite boring.

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Old 02-15-2011, 04:39 PM   #16
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Do you actually just read my response or just troll me. I DID say to take a hydro reading...... :rolleye:
The problem is you give the same cut and paste response every time you see the words fermentation and air lock bubbling.

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I know not to go off of the bubbles but I usually check gravity when the bubbles slow to one every 60 seconds or longer which usually only takes a week.
The OP was noticing something unusual for the vessel, yeast pitch, and temp that he usually ferments at. Rather than throwing out your trademark response, maybe you could try and actually help them figure out WHY the beer is doing what it is doing. Bubbling every 5 seconds would be HIGHLY unusual for it to be just CO2 off gassing due to temp change or vibrations, especially with a blow off tube.

Just because people feel dumb when they read your degrading and annoying rant and decide not to argue with you and just "RDWHAHB" doesn't mean you are right 90% of the time.

And I'm not trolling you. Why don't you honestly read your cut and paste "airlock" post sometime and ask yourself if you feel that it is not degrading to the person and if it actually helps them understand the science of brewing? Yes, the OP needs to take a hydro reading, but you don't have to give them the screws everytime they mention the word "airlock." Bubbling that steady for 11 days implys to me that there might be something else at work here such as an infection or not enough yeast pitched to begin with.
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Old 02-15-2011, 04:55 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by JLW View Post
First, I have seperated the idea that the airlock bubbling and fermentation are two seperate things. I only use the airlock as a guide and my experience is that this is the first time I have had bubbling going steady for 11 days and at the same rate. It was something new to me being much less experienced in brewing than most people on this board. I thought while I was at the computer and this scenario was fresh in my mind I would get another opinion.

Again there are two batches brewed on the same day with very little variance in technique. Batch #1 is in a glass carboy. Batch # 2 is in a plastic fermentation bucket. I live in the country so there are no vibrations from the street and neither beer has been moved since I placed them there originally. EDIT: I'm using a blow off tube into a bucket of water for both beers. I was going to switch off to an airlock upon transfer.

When I get home from work tonight I will take a hydrometer sample from each and gather ambient temp and report back.

Thats all I can think of right now.

EDIT: My apologies if I have wasted anyones time.
Nothing at all to apologize for, of course. And you are absolutely right...if you see something unusual, it is worth investigating further. It very well may still be fermenting, in which case you it might be worth figuring out why that is the case.

Gas saturation is weird. We all learned solubility rules in high school chemistry, but beer can get supersaturated pretty significantly if it is sitting still. Anybody who has had to mechanically degas a batch of wine will tell you how ridiculously much CO2 can come out of otherwise normal looking liquid. Even if (and perhaps especially if) there are no physical vibrations where you are storing the beer, it can bleed off CO2 for a long, long time.

Krausen is weirder. I talked to a chemist who researches foam a while back and asked her about why krausen rises and falls, and she listed a huge number of factors that can come into play. I've got a california common that is still holding a krausen even though it has been at final gravity for nearly three weeks now. I don't have an explanation for it.

All these things should definitely be suggestive, just like you have said. The arguments that this thread seems to have inspired aside, your intuitions are good. Let us know what you find.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by MachineShopBrewing View Post
The problem is you give the same cut and paste response every time you see the words fermentation and air lock bubbling.



The OP was noticing something unusual for the vessel, yeast pitch, and temp that he usually ferments at. Rather than throwing out your trademark response, maybe you could try and actually help them figure out WHY the beer is doing what it is doing. Bubbling every 5 seconds would be HIGHLY unusual for it to be just CO2 off gassing due to temp change or vibrations, especially with a blow off tube.

Just because people feel dumb when they read your degrading and annoying rant and decide not to argue with you and just "RDWHAHB" doesn't mean you are right 90% of the time.

And I'm not trolling you. Why don't you honestly read your cut and paste "airlock" post sometime and ask yourself if you feel that it is not degrading to the person and if it actually helps them understand the science of brewing? Yes, the OP needs to take a hydro reading, but you don't have to give them the screws everytime they mention the word "airlock." Bubbling that steady for 11 days implys to me that there might be something else at work here such as an infection or not enough yeast pitched to begin with.
Said beautifully!
I have had the same thoughts as you, Ive been here a very short time, have little to no brewing experience, and I am very put off by the canned response and it makes me and possibly others want to go elsewhere for discussions.
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Old 02-15-2011, 06:39 PM   #19
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Said beautifully!
I have had the same thoughts as you, Ive been here a very short time, have little to no brewing experience, and I am very put off by the canned response and it makes me and possibly others want to go elsewhere for discussions.
Thank you for the kind words. That is the reason that I go after Revvy when I see posts like that. It could very well be some strange atmospheric/vibration/degassing/CO2 blowoff phenomenon that the OP has going on, but wouldn't that be some nice information for us all to explore and discuss rather than making them feel stupid for noticing something that they haven't seen before and ending the whole conversation there? I see too many times where he makes a post like that and the OP says something like "yeah, I guess I should just RDWHAHB" when there might have been something a little more to explore and discuss. I am sure most newbies read that post and look at the post count and decide that they must be stupid for asking any questions at all. A HIGH POST COUNT DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE AN EXPERT.
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Old 02-16-2011, 01:20 AM   #20
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Thanks to all for the help on this.

Batch 1: OG 1.084 Current Gravity: 1.038 Temp of wort: 71/72 degrees
Batch 2: OG 1.090 Current Gravity: 1.020 Temp of wort: 72/73 degrees

Recipe calls for a final gravity of 1.020

Additional information:

Yeast: Pacific Ale WLP041

Taste test of batch 1 sample: Smelled like bread and I confirmed with my wife. The tatse was little sweet but didn't taste off or rancid.

Taste test of batch 2 sample: Smell was slightly different but again not off, not rancid. My wife describes it as smelling like yeast and kind of sweet. Taste was a more bitter but in a good way, again not rancid. I think b/c it has reach FG?

I don't think the krausen has fallen on either batch. Very thick layer on top like wet bread.

Original recipe:

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: dry, neutral
Yeast Starter: recommended
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.084
Final Gravity: 1.020
IBU: 81.4
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: 15.9
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 days at 65º
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 65º

Grains

15.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt
0.50 lb Caramunich Malt
0.50 lb Special B Malt

Hops
1.00 oz Simicoe [12.2%] (70 min)
1.00 oz Chinook [11.4%] (45 min)
.75 oz Chinook [13.00%] (15 min)
1.00 oz Chinook [11.4%] (0 min)
1.5 oz Chinook [11.4%] (dry hop)

Mash in with 5.31 gallons of water to mash at 154º

Drain mash water
batch sparge once with 3 gallons of 180º water.
batch sparge again with 3 gallons of 180º water

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