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Old 06-19-2010, 07:26 PM   #21
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was the final taste anything like dupont? I would kill for being able to reproduce the funky spiciness...
Could you post your recipe? I think I might just go ahead and brew it soon, even though I still have many of my other (first) saison.
It definitely has that slightly spicy phenolic character that Dupont has. The key is the big pitch of 3724. I made a sour mash with 1 lb of the pilsener malt a couple of days before hand and added it to the main mash. I just heated the mini-mash on the stove to 154F, sanitized a lid and covered it. When it got to 120F, I tossed in a scant handful of unmilled malt, covered it back up and put it in my temp control chamber set at 100F. The next day, I had a nice clean lacto fermentation going on. No garbage or used baby diaper off aromas at all, just a nice, yogurty sour aroma. I let it go until it was nicely sour, then heated it up till just boiling to kill off the lacto, covered it again and kept it in my beer fridge till brew day. On brew day, I heated it up to 150F and mixed it in with the main mash for the last half hour. Didn't want the acidity to affect my conversion. Not being bottled yet, I can't testify as to how this has affected the flavor too much, I just know I'm very happy with it out of the fermenter.



BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Saison
Brewer: Damon P
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.75 gal
Boil Size: 7.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.060 SG
Estimated Color: 5.6 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.4 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 84.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
0.50 lb Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 4.44 %
7.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 66.67 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 8.89 %
1.00 lb Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 8.89 %
0.25 lb Caramunich I (Weyermann) (51.0 SRM) Grain 2.22%
1.00 lb Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 8.89 %

1.10 oz Goldings, B.C. [5.00 %] (60 min) Hops 19.3 IBU
0.66 oz Mt. Hood [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 11.1 IBU
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [4.80 %] (0 min) Hops -


1 Pkgs Belgian Saison (Wyeast Labs #3724) [Starter Yeast-Ale]

1 Pkgs French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 10.25 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 3.20 gal of water at 160.2 F 147.0 F


Notes:
------
Brewday 6/6/10

1.060 SG -> 84% Efficiency

6/9/2010: 1.025
6/11/2010: 1.011
6/16/2010: 1.004
6/18/2010: 1.004

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Old 06-20-2010, 03:06 PM   #22
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Anyone use this yeast above 80F? Its my all time favorite yeast in nearly 2 years of brewing. I made 6 batches with it and 3 will be done this summer. I want to try to brew one batch without controlling the temperature at all and with July around the corner I can expect room temperature to go above 80F sometimes.

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Old 06-30-2010, 09:32 PM   #23
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I just want to make sure I am not an idiot and reading this wrong. Is the run-down that the 3711 will get you under 1.010 in under 2wks, while the 3724 can take 4-8wks, but it has a different ester profile?

Also, people said to mix the yeast? Say half a smack pak of 3711 and a small starter of 3724?

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Old 06-30-2010, 09:55 PM   #24
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Also, people said to mix the yeast? Say half a smack pak of 3711 and a small starter of 3724?
I think the dual yeast idea is to first use the 3724 to get the flavor profile, then after a week or two pitch the 3711 to let it finish to the low FG.
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:46 PM   #25
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I think the dual yeast idea is to first use the 3724 to get the flavor profile, then after a week or two pitch the 3711 to let it finish to the low FG.
I'm always a little leery about doing that, although I'm sure it works just fine. FWIW, I pitched the 3711 with the 3724. You could tell that it was the 3724 that dominated the ferment at first because the krausen dropped 18 hrs in @ 1.025. Then the 3711 chipped away at the last 20 or so gravity points.
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:59 PM   #26
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so what, in your opinion, would be the best way to get the earthy, rustic flavor of 3725, along with the attenuation of 3711?
3711 was a little too banana/bubble gum, so I want it to be less dominant.

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Old 07-01-2010, 02:23 PM   #27
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Like I posted earlier, do a big starter of 3724. Then just open the smack pack of 3711 and dump half of the pack or less. The 3724, especially when pitched a little warm, mine was at 72F, will take off in a couple hours. My saison definitely has the rustic, peppery phenols of a good saison, and it was @ 1.004 after 10 days.

You could also do what passedpawn suggests, but I would pitch an active starter of 3711 after the 3724 quits.

If you listen to the Brewing Network, Odonata Brewing Company uses the same technique, that's when I decided to use it. They were interviewed on the Sunday Session. They go even less than I did with the 3711, they pitch 95% 3724(Dupont) and 5% 3711. They don't even use sugar and their saisons finish in the single digits.

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Old 07-01-2010, 02:33 PM   #28
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Thanks Smizak, I'm going to try what you suggest. My 3711 tastes more like Southhampton saison than Dupont, so I'll combine the yeasts to get more of the 3725 rustic flavor.
I plan on doing a few different saison experiments, I'll post my results once finished.

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Old 07-01-2010, 02:37 PM   #29
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Thanks Smizak, I'm going to try what you suggest. My 3711 tastes more like Southhampton saison than Dupont, so I'll combine the yeasts to get more of the 3725 rustic flavor.
I plan on doing a few different saison experiments, I'll post my results once finished.
Please do! I'm very satisfied with mine, I hope it works out for you.
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Old 07-01-2010, 05:18 PM   #30
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Smizak,
Just listened to the Sunday Session you mentioned, it's quite interesting. I'm now pondering using just a couple percent of acidulated malt. What are your thoughts on adding acidity to the recipe? I know that you made a sour mash, is it crucial to the crispness we all hope for in Saison?

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