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Old 05-23-2010, 05:22 AM   #41
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I 2nd Oceanselev's comment on the temp during bottling. I recently had a batch of bottle bomb Pilsners because of my excitement and lack of attention to temp.

A few extra seconds of checking your temp and expected carb levels can save 6-8 weeks that could end up lost.

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Old 05-23-2010, 12:15 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by oceanselv View Post
Just remember to adjust the amount of priming sugar for your temperature if you don't bottle at room temp.
Be careful here. If, at the end of fermentation, you raised the lager to do a d-rest, then that is the temperature (d-rest temp, i.e., 65F) you should be using to calculate your priming sugar addition. So, in this case, even if you've been lagering at 35, you would calculate your priming sugar assuming 65.

The colder the beer, the more CO2 it can hold in solution. However, if one drops the beer from 65 down to lagering temps and there is not further source of CO2, then the CO2 will in solution will not increase. Clear as mud, heh?
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Old 05-24-2010, 12:38 AM   #43
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So let me get this straight, If I did my primary at 50 degrees, did no d-rest, then lagered at 32 for 4 weeks I'll need a different amount of sugar than if I did primary at 50, then d-rest at 65 and lager at 32 for 4 weeks?

If im understanding right, the lager that never saw 65 degrees is going into the bottling bucket with a bit more co2 STILL in it than the one that DID go up to 65, as some of the co2 left suspension at the warmer temperature. The lager that was raised warmer will need more priming sugar to make up for it's lower co2 content? Thanks for your expertise.

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Old 05-24-2010, 12:51 AM   #44
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So let me get this straight, If I did my primary at 50 degrees, did no d-rest, then lagered at 32 for 4 weeks I'll need a different amount of sugar than if I did primary at 50, then d-rest at 65 and lager at 32 for 4 weeks?

If im understanding right, the lager that never saw 65 degrees is going into the bottling bucket with a bit more co2 STILL in it than the one that DID go up to 65, as some of the co2 left suspension at the warmer temperature. The lager that was raised warmer will need more priming sugar to make up for it's lower co2 content? Thanks for your expertise.
Yes. That's exactly right. If you raise the temp after fermentation, i.e., to do a d-rest, CO2 will be released from solution. The highest temperature you raise it to, after fermentation, is the temp you need to consider when bottling: even if you have lowered the beer to lagering temps afterwards.
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Old 05-24-2010, 02:53 PM   #45
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Thanks for the input!

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Old 06-01-2010, 10:59 PM   #46
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This might be a silly question, but what would happen if I didn't lager my lager, and instead just bottled after doing a D-rest? Would anything bad happen other than it not tasting quite as good as it could?

I'm quite keen to get mine bottled up and drinkable, to verify that my sanitation procedures have been successful - I've been having problems, and would like to avoid waiting an extra few weeks to know whether I've got it figured out.

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Old 06-01-2010, 11:38 PM   #47
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This might be a silly question, but what would happen if I didn't lager my lager, and instead just bottled after doing a D-rest? Would anything bad happen other than it not tasting quite as good as it could?

I'm quite keen to get mine bottled up and drinkable, to verify that my sanitation procedures have been successful - I've been having problems, and would like to avoid waiting an extra few weeks to know whether I've got it figured out.
Funny you should ask the question as I was just logging in to ask something very similar. And as the OP, I will combine my question with yours.

I currently have an extract German Pils laggering as we speak, taking up room in my fridge. However I also decided to try another Coopers European Lager using two cans and no added sugars.

The Coopers is nearing the end of fermentation, it has been fermenting at 14-16.5 C (the yeast is rated for 13-21C) for two weeks in my garage in an insulated room, however the outdoor temps are getting warmer and I don't know how much long the room will stay cool (luckily we had a lot of cold nights and a few cold days lately)

I have lots of patience but no room to lager my beer, what if I racked it to the carboy and left it at a coolish room temp for a month or two maybe around the high 60s?

I could at that point keg it and lager it for awhile as my German Pils will be out and I can fit two kegs where my one carboy was. Or I will have finished a keg or two by then.
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Old 06-02-2010, 12:14 AM   #48
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Though this hasn't always been the case for me, I currently have an oktoberfest lagering that has changed a pretty good deal since i turned the temps down. After primary, i tasted it and i didn't taste any diacetyl, but the beer tasted more like pyramid brewery's amber lager (sorry if that beer is only in my neck of the woods, that's the only beer i know that it tasted reminiscent of). It had a nice, gentle malt flavor to it, and I could actually taste the lager yeasts themselves, but it didn't taste very german. I was bummed because i'm a massive stickler for german styles, but the beer was good anyway so I put it down to lagering temps.

3 weeks later and it smells like I just cracked a paulaner oktoberfest, all sorts of melanoidenny goodness going up my nose. My theory is that that 'lager yeast flavor' i tasted about was actually a more potent flavor than the german-malty-melanoiden flavor I was looking for, and as the yeast settle and eat up more of their by products, that distinct continental character was allowed to poke through. This isn't based on fact or science, just my perceptions of dozens of failed and successfull lager attempts.

Reading suggests that not lagering can result in a 'green apple' flavor from acetaldehyde which is a naturally occuring ester that usually gets eaten up. This is a known part of Budweiser's profile, if you taste it carefully enough. In my experience, green apple is one of MANY flavors I wish would vanish with lagering time =D.

So I guess lagering seems to only fix minor off-flavors. If you used just a vial of white labs and fermented at 57 degrees, lagering won't fix your problems. So brewhan, bottle it now only if you're satisfied with the flavor you have today because it will taste more like malt/hops and less like yeast as time goes on. Just check the hydrometer so you don't get bottle bombs.

I don't know anything about keg lagering though.

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Old 06-02-2010, 12:51 AM   #49
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I should have mentioned the instructions with my Euro Lager say to brew then bottle for 3 months, so I assume brewing cool then carboy for a month at room temp then bottle/keg (I do both because my kegs hold all but 1 gal) then after carbonation, chill for a couple of months, it can't be bad, can only be better than the instructions.

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