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Old 11-06-2011, 05:04 PM   #1
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Default Lager yeast question

bout to brew an oktoberfest beer. first time using lager yeast. does fermentation take longer with lager yeast?

just in case anyone wants to know here the recipe i thought up for this one.

8.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 47.76 %
4.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 23.88 %
4.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 23.88 %
0.50 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 2.99 %
0.25 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 1.49 %
2.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 24.3 IBU
1.00 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (15 min) Hops 6.0 IBU
1 Pkgs Bohemian Lager (Wyeast Labs #2124) [Starter 125 ml] Yeast-Lager


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Old 11-06-2011, 05:23 PM   #2
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Where an ale might take 4-5 days a lager will take 6-10. It's really is just the lower temps that slows it down.

Here is a typical 1.048 lager pitched at 10^6 calls/ml. It's at FG at five days then for two more days the yeast are cleaning up and going into dormancy. Seven days and it's ready to lager.
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Old 11-06-2011, 06:12 PM   #3
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Yes, lagers in general take longer than ales of the same OG. Pitch enough yeast and closely monitor your temps!
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Old 11-07-2011, 12:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malticulous
Where an ale might take 4-5 days a lager will take 6-10. It's really is just the lower temps that slows it down.

Here is a typical 1.048 lager pitched at 10^6 calls/ml. It's at FG at five days then for two more days the yeast are cleaning up and going into dormancy. Seven days and it's ready to lager.
So then I'm gonna put it in the ferm fridge and keep it at 45f. I'm gonna do a long primary 3-4 weeks (I just like to do it that way). But then what do I do for the lagering part? Secondary for a month at 45f??
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:11 AM   #5
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after pimary fermentation is done I like to transfer to a keg then lower temps to the low 30's for 4-6 weeks lagering stage.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:16 AM   #6
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I don't like a one month primary. Lagering is done after the maturation phase (or diacetyl rest.) If you pitch enough yeast (even less than what Mr. Malty calculates) you will be lagering with in two weeks or less. Less being more likely. You have to watch your fermantation. Don't take anyone's word for it.
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:47 AM   #7
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Lager fermentation tends to take longer, but it's because of the temperature, not the fact that it's lager yeast.

To me it looks like you are pitching nowhere near enough yeast to ferment at that temperature. If you pitch one package of 2124 with a 125ml starter at 45 degrees, you are asking to get underattenuated. Use the pitching rate calculator at www.mrmalty.com to find out how big your starter should be; you are likely looking at 4 litres or more for a beer that big depending on when your Wyeast is manufactured and whether you are using a stir plate for your starter. Given how big your starter will need to be, you will want to chill and decant it once it has fermented out (you can make it at room temp if you're pressed for time).

There is no point doing a 3-4 week primary. Instead, do a diacetyl rest by raising the temperature of your beer above 60 degrees (room temperature is fine) when you are 8 gravity points or so above target FG (you can determine your FG with a forced fermentation test or ballpark it by looking at your OG and attenuation range for your yeast). I like the 2124 (I use the Saflager dry yeast equivalent a lot) and think that even in the mid-40s you will be looking at a d-rest in 10 days or less. You want the d-rest to occur during the last part of active fermentation. For a big beer like your planned Oktoberfest I'd be thinking about a d-rest in the high 1.020's. Once your temp is raised, leave it there anywhere from a few days to a week, then rack to a secondary for lagering (make sure fermentation is complete).

One last observation is that your grain bill is pretty big; what is your target OG? An Oktoberfest OG should be 1.050 to 1.057.

Good luck!
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Old 11-07-2011, 04:13 AM   #8
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In that graph yeast is pitched at 46F. By fermentation it's allowed to heat to 50F. At day five it's heated to 60-65F. Raising the temp not only reduces off flavors but also reduces the time needed for lagering.
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Old 11-07-2011, 06:12 PM   #9
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K thx guys
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Old 11-07-2011, 10:10 PM   #10
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Quote:
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One last observation is that your grain bill is pretty big; what is your target OG? An Oktoberfest OG should be 1.050 to 1.057.

Good luck!
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