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Old 07-28-2013, 10:51 PM   #1
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Default Infection Questions

Hey everyone. I have a few questions regarding infections, but first the backstory.

I brewed a Saison a few months ago, which I had many complications with such a unreliable temperature control and stuck fermentation. Long story short, the Saison was sour, very sour. I didn't realize this until after I brewed an Oktoberfest, which I racked into the primary with the same racking cane (sanitized in Star-San as usual) I used for the Saison. The Oktoberfest took about 36 hours for fermentation to go crazy, but I pitched 200 billion cells for 5 gallons at 58F then it was brought down to 47F, so the slow start seemed normal. It has been 2 weeks exactly and the beer is at the intended FG and my reading indicate it is done fermenting. However, it doesn't really taste right. I think it kinda tastes sour and a bit watery. I don't know if I'm actually tastes tartness or not. I also do not have a LHBS to go get an opinion.

So my questions are:
1. How long does an infection take to develop and produce enough flavors to detect?
2. Can an infection continue to produce flavors even if there are no more sugars left to eat?
3. There was definitely a watered down-ness to beer, where could this come from?

P.S. The beer was in a brand new carboy as well.

Thanks for the help.

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Old 07-29-2013, 01:31 AM   #2
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You might be tasting a lot of things that can be perceived as sour. It could be tannins due to a ph issue or even suspended yeast. Lagers take a great deal of time to even out. I have had lagers that I thought about dumping only to later have them score very will at competition. The beer tasted like crap early. Just give it lots of time to cold condition.

You may have an infection......however, an infection usually would in my opinion, give a more vinegary taste. Judging a lager young is tough to do.

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Old 07-29-2013, 01:41 AM   #3
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Some saison strains contain brettanomyces. This could be giving you the tartness. People who routinely make sour beers will have separate carboys and racking canes so that the brett does not cross contaminate. Since normal sanitization will not kill brett. Maybe this it? Not sure about the watered down issue though.

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Old 07-29-2013, 01:59 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies. Reinstone, what kind of ph issues could there be? I have not learned a lot about ph yet.

two one seven, I used wyeast 3724 in the saison do you know if this strain has brett in it? I believe it is Duponts strain.

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Old 07-29-2013, 02:05 AM   #5
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That one doesn't I believe. You could have picked up a wild one perhaps.

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Old 07-29-2013, 02:26 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild_Fly View Post
Thanks for the replies. Reinstone, what kind of ph issues could there be? I have not learned a lot about ph yet.

two one seven, I used wyeast 3724 in the saison do you know if this strain has brett in it? I believe it is Duponts strain.
If you are doing all grain and the ph is too high, you can get tannin pickup. Think of a red wine taste...the puckering. In the past I had certain astringent qualities in my lighter beers until I started understanding water in the brewing process. If I knew the recipe and how you performed the brew I might be able to help. I am finding it funny that in a worldwide forum both 217 and I reside in the same city (so to speak). It's funny that we both responded.
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BL, CL, Miller etc. is like makin love in a canoe.....
its fkin close to water.
Lagering/conditioning: German pils, Dortmunder
Lagering:Kolsch, Dusseldorf alt
American Amber, Red ale
Double ipa, Rye ipa
Fermenting: German pils
Wheat 1,Wheat 2
All to be kegged and served by May 10

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Old 07-29-2013, 02:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by two_one_seven View Post
Some saison strains contain brettanomyces. This could be giving you the tartness. People who routinely make sour beers will have separate carboys and racking canes so that the brett does not cross contaminate. Since normal sanitization will not kill brett. Maybe this it? Not sure about the watered down issue though.
Didn't know normal sanitation won't kill Bret, I won't be using that stuff.
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BL, CL, Miller etc. is like makin love in a canoe.....
its fkin close to water.
Lagering/conditioning: German pils, Dortmunder
Lagering:Kolsch, Dusseldorf alt
American Amber, Red ale
Double ipa, Rye ipa
Fermenting: German pils
Wheat 1,Wheat 2
All to be kegged and served by May 10

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Old 07-29-2013, 02:51 AM   #8
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Yep Brett is a yeast so the acid based sanitizers don't touch it. There are ways to get rid of it but it involves different methods.

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Old 07-29-2013, 12:23 PM   #9
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The high ph could definitely be the problem. I did a little research on ph during the mash and learned some good stuff. I didn't pay attention to ph at all in any of my brews, so I don't really have any way of knowing what went wrong. Next time for sure though, I will check the ph and adjust.

Another thing I read was that it takes a long time to get rid of the sulfur smell in lagers. Could this "Sulfur" be tasted? Maybe thats also contributing to the weird flavor.

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Old 07-29-2013, 03:31 PM   #10
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It could be a lot of things. I'd give it more time.

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BL, CL, Miller etc. is like makin love in a canoe.....
its fkin close to water.
Lagering/conditioning: German pils, Dortmunder
Lagering:Kolsch, Dusseldorf alt
American Amber, Red ale
Double ipa, Rye ipa
Fermenting: German pils
Wheat 1,Wheat 2
All to be kegged and served by May 10

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