I have two Wyeast Smack Packs, need to make a starter. Use both?

I am doing a clone of NB's Big Honkin' Stout

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/BigHonkinStout.pdf

I have two Wyeast 1332 Northwest Ale Yeast smack packs. Should I make a starter using both, only one or just pitch both?

What are the dates on the packages and do you have a stir plate?

I am at work, but I purchased the packs last week, so they shouldn't be too old. I wish I had that info for you.

I have a stir plate.

i would just use one and save the other for next time.

So I am good to just follow the 2L starter instructions for this beer tonight? I am brewing tomorrow around 5 or 6pm

Yes. In fact, a 2L starter using one smack pack would be a bit of overkill. A 1L starter should get you pretty close to the sweet spot for pitching rate.

According to Yeastcalc, you need 235 billion cells to pitch. Assuming your smack packs are a few weeks old, a 1L starter on a stir plate (using Kai's growth formula) will yield about 219 billion cells, which is close enough. A 2L starter would yield about 360B, which would be overpitching by about 50%.

I went to www.yeastcalc.com and plugged in the numbers using 8/1/2013 as the date on your pack. The beer at 1.068 OG needs 235B cells pitch rate. A 1.5L starter will yield 288B cells using Kai's stir plate calculation which is the one I use. This is for one pack

That being said, if you are planning on brewing tomorrow and will not be getting your starter going until tonight you will have to try and pitch the starter at high krausen as you will not have time to crash and decant.

If the date on the packs is much older than you will have to re-calculate and evaluate what is needed, you may need to use both packs to reach cell count since you won't have time to step up.

edit: LLBean types faster than I do! You probably could get away with a 1.25L starter as well

So what would be the main difference between pitching 2 packs (200 Billion) or using one with a starter? (Aside from the obvious 35 bil missing cells)

Will the yeast be healthier with a starter?

themack22 said:

So what would be the main difference between pitching 2 packs (200 Billion) or using one with a starter? (Aside from the obvious 35 bil missing cells)

Will the yeast be healthier with a starter?

Click to expand...

Well, to start you are assuming there are actually 100B cells viable in each pack and most likely that is not the case unless the date of the pack was like only a week ago so you may actually be less than the assumed 200B cells meaning you would be off more than the 35B cells difference.

IMO, you should still make a starter, it just comes down to the size needed. That being said I can't really tell you there is anything wrong with pitching both packs, the beer will still ferment and the pitch rate won't be off that much.

For next time though, I prefer to begin my starters at least 5-7 days in advance t allow for full fermentation, crashing and decanting and any steps that may need to be done but I harvest all my yeast so the dates of my yeast vary quite a bit so every beer gets a fresh starter

200 billion is best case, but it depends on how old they are as to how many of those 200B are still viable. It's almost every case, it is best to use a starter when using liquid yeast.

When you get home, plug the package dates into yeastcalc and see where you're really at, cell count wise and go from there.

Edit: What duboman said.

Thanks everyone!

Cheers

Got my starter made, but the stir plate my buddy lent me is broken.

He said he dropped it a few days ago. The motor is broken off of the fan.

Now what? My other smack pack burst across the room when I smacked it, so it's done.

Just swirl the starter every time you walk by. It will not ha e the same cell count but will make a serviceable starter.

Well, if the cell count is not there I will have an underattenuated beer, right?

Would buying another smack pack and pitching that alongside of this do the trick?

A little extra info:

The date on the pack was 7/13/13

I brought the starter to work so I could swirl it often.

You'll be fine, getting a starter going is better than no starter at all and most likely the beer will turn out great!

Decant the spent wort?

Using intermittent shaking and the date of 7/13 it looks like you need a 3 liter starter. You are starting with about 65% viable cells in the pack.

I would get at least another pack of yeast or put off brew day until you can make a proper starter. Intermittent shaking takes longer than using a stirplate. I would allow at least 2 days with shaking method. I would not try a starter today for use tomorrow with that small amount of viable yeast.

Attenuation is not the issue with underpitching. Unwanted flavors are what you are trying to avoid. The yeast will reproduce to cell counts to ferment the wort. But, while doing so will impart unwanted flavors.

I keep getting different replies.

It's an internet forum...that almost always happens when it comes to ways to do things.

If it were me, even thought less than "perfect", I'd probably just use the starter you have and since it's a (relatively) small starter I'd pitch the whole thing to get as much yeast as you can.

If that causes great discontent and you want to spend the money, then another yeast pack certainly won't hurt anything.

Oh, by the way, not sure how you smack your packs but if it was on a hard surface that's probably why it blew out.

themack22 said:

I keep getting different replies.

Click to expand...

Dude,
Everyone here is correct but as for what you should do? Go ahead and brew the beer and pitch the yeast.

Take everything offered as advice and keep the time required to properly make a starter in mind so next time you are not in a crunch.

In the end you will have made beer and it will be good and enjoyable

Making starters does require some advance planning and eliminates spur of the moment brew sessions but great beer should be planned anyways.

I try to leave at least 5-7 days ahead of brewing to make starters ahead of time. If my brew day gets delayed then the starter sits in the fridge, no harm no foul but if you cut it too short then it's an issue as you are finding.

Everyone has a different method that works for them and that's what you need to figure out in your own process but like I said, make your beer and enjoy it!

You will be FINE with the starter you have. People ferment batches with a single smack pack all the time and the beer comes out great.

I hear you guys, I just didn't plan on my buddy letting me borrow the stir plate he happened to drop two days before he gave it to me.

I didn't smack it on a hard surface, just in my hands. I've done that a million times.

Thanks for all the replies.