Happy HolidaySs Giveaway - Last Sponsor Giveaway of the Year!

Come Enter the BrewDeals/FastFerment Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > How to get brewers yeast to like potato and flour
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-21-2014, 05:18 AM   #11
danath34
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 156
Liked 33 Times on 19 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

I doubt there are enough enzymes present in flour to get a decent amount of conversion.

I also question what the motive in this is? what's your goal? this definitely doesn't sound like something I'd be drinking

__________________
danath34 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-21-2014, 06:44 AM   #12
pdxal
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,145
Liked 101 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 159

Default

Yeast in bread eats sugars that the baker adds to make the bread rise.
Flour and potato have very little sugars and beer or wine yeast need sugars to ferment, so the starch in both needs to be converted to produce alcohol.
If you want an experiment, try rice wine yeast balls, which contain a mold and yeast. The mold breaks down the starches in the rice and the yeast ferments it. I would imagine it would work with another substrate like potato or wheat flour too. The results, though, might be horrible. The yeast balls are available at Asian markets.

__________________
pdxal is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-21-2014, 02:17 PM   #13
fatcop
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Warren, Pennsylvania
Posts: 61
Liked 8 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxal View Post
Yeast in bread eats sugars that the baker adds to make the bread rise.
Flour and potato have very little sugars and beer or wine yeast need sugars to ferment, so the starch in both needs to be converted to produce alcohol.
If you want an experiment, try rice wine yeast balls, which contain a mold and yeast. The mold breaks down the starches in the rice and the yeast ferments it. I would imagine it would work with another substrate like potato or wheat flour too. The results, though, might be horrible. The yeast balls are available at Asian markets.
As someone who has been baking much much longer then I have been brewing beer I have to correct this. Many many types of bread have no added sugars. The yeast can convert and/or consume the flour directly. Differing strands of yeast produce enzymes which can break down certain carbohydrates.

That being said... back to the OP... I am actually surprised the Mr. Beer yeast isn't fermenting it very well. I would have guessed the Mr. Beer yeast was closely related to bread yeast given the flavors I experienced fermenting my first Mr. Beer kits. What wine yeast were you using? I have read several times on this forum how wine yeast won't even consume maltose so again this is curious to me.
__________________
fatcop is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-21-2014, 02:41 PM   #14
JLeuch
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 32
Liked 5 Times on 5 Posts

Default

Mr beer yeast is standard coopers dry ale least that comes in theire 3.3 pound lme containers, most yeast require a "proof" in warm water for 10 min to be used with flour or potatos so try a starter it should take it on but only time will tell

__________________
JLeuch is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-22-2014, 02:55 AM   #15
pdxal
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,145
Liked 101 Times on 93 Posts
Likes Given: 159

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatcop View Post
As someone who has been baking much much longer then I have been brewing beer I have to correct this. Many many types of bread have no added sugars. The yeast can convert and/or consume the flour directly. Differing strands of yeast produce enzymes which can break down certain carbohydrates.

That being said... back to the OP... I am actually surprised the Mr. Beer yeast isn't fermenting it very well. I would have guessed the Mr. Beer yeast was closely related to bread yeast given the flavors I experienced fermenting my first Mr. Beer kits. What wine yeast were you using? I have read several times on this forum how wine yeast won't even consume maltose so again this is curious to me.
I stand corrected.
However, as I understand it the yeast are not fermenting starch, they are fermenting sugars that are in the flour, or added to the dough to assist/speed leavening.
If they were able to break down the starch there would be no need for malting to make beer.
Chinese yeast balls and Koji have a combination of yeast and a mold that converts the starch in the rice that is then fermented. Bacteria may convert starch, and brett does somewhat, but beer and baker's yeast do not to any significant amount.
If you know of a saccaromyces cerevisiae that converts starch to sugar, please post a link, everyone would be interested, myself included. I love learning new things about brewing, as I'm sure you do.
__________________
pdxal is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-22-2014, 11:55 PM   #16
fatcop
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Warren, Pennsylvania
Posts: 61
Liked 8 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxal View Post
I stand corrected.
However, as I understand it the yeast are not fermenting starch, they are fermenting sugars that are in the flour, or added to the dough to assist/speed leavening.
If they were able to break down the starch there would be no need for malting to make beer.
Chinese yeast balls and Koji have a combination of yeast and a mold that converts the starch in the rice that is then fermented. Bacteria may convert starch, and brett does somewhat, but beer and baker's yeast do not to any significant amount.
If you know of a saccaromyces cerevisiae that converts starch to sugar, please post a link, everyone would be interested, myself included. I love learning new things about brewing, as I'm sure you do.
This is very true I believe and I am not pretending to be a white labs scientist by any means. This ability of the yeast to produce the enzymes is why it's selected as baker's yeast. I have read on these forums that wine yeast is very poor at consuming maltose. The production of one of these enzymes is why adding table sugar is bad, the taste of that enzyme is the cidery flavor brewers dislike. Fermentation off flavors are always desirable in bread though.
__________________
fatcop is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-22-2014, 11:57 PM   #17
WayFrae
16%er
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
WayFrae's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 909
Liked 130 Times on 105 Posts
Likes Given: 32

Default

I thought the enzymes are added to the flour during production and not created by the yeast.

__________________
Primary: Simple Cider | Rodeo Clown RyePA
Drinking: Hop Solo Double IPA | Rodeo Clown RyePA | Edwort's Apfelwein
WayFrae is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-23-2014, 12:11 AM   #18
fatcop
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Warren, Pennsylvania
Posts: 61
Liked 8 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 13

Default

There is a small amount of diastatic malt added in American wheat flours to aid in this process, many flours in Europe do not. Italian pizza flour definitely does not have any malt or other enzymes added, and sugar is definitely not allowed in that style of dough. If flour relied on enzymes or sugar, bread would be a much more recent invention.

__________________
fatcop is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-23-2014, 02:46 AM   #19
Dynachrome
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Americas Hinterland, Wisconsin
Posts: 1,897
Liked 59 Times on 53 Posts
Likes Given: 469

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuldTuborg View Post
How old are you, out of curiosity?
shopkins1994 - twenty?

I was thinking to myself, "What conditions would cause a person to brew with these ingredients?"

If he gets good results though, I'm wondering how inexpensive it could turn out.

Hooch Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by c.n.budz View Post
Sounds like a large batch of something best made in a prison toilet
__________________
I drink therefore I am.
Dynachrome is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
flour in your mash Mabbing All Grain & Partial Mash Brewing 3 03-11-2012 11:17 PM
flour? claphamsa Cooking & Pairing 2 07-18-2011 03:10 PM
Yeast Starter from Wheat Flour celtic-brew General Techniques 16 03-09-2011 03:28 PM
Flour City Brewers Fest Aegir New York HomeBrew Forum 10 08-23-2009 01:19 AM
Rochester NY - Flour City Brewers Fest JohnA111 New York HomeBrew Forum 0 05-11-2008 08:16 PM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS