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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Fermentation & Yeast > Help with improving my process for a Big Beer
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Old 04-03-2011, 04:41 AM   #1
williamnave
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Default Help with improving my process for a Big Beer

OK, I'm working on an IIPA. I made the recipe, brewed it, and now have it on tap. It started at 1.089, after 4 weeks in primary, it hit about 1.025. I use a finishing narrow-range hydrometer, so I'm pretty sure that was a dead end for that brew. Hadn't moved in days.

It's good, but tastes more like a sweet, hoppy Barleywine and that's not what I want. I'm looking for input on things I can do to improve. Trying to hit something in the 1.007 range.

LAST TIME:
1. Made a simple 1L starter +Wyeast Nutrient. Nothing added to main wort.

2. Fermented at Room Temp in closet, about 67.

THIS TIME:
1. Am going to make a 1L Starter, decant it, pour a fresh 1L of wort on starter, go again, then pitch. Use Wyeast Nutrient both times, plus in boil of main wort. I stir plate my starters, and am starting them at ~1.040.

2. Putting Carboy out in garage, I have a thermo monitoring it and I think it's going to hold closer to 60. A little concerned it may dip below 60 at night.

3. Always I shake wort to aerate, this time plan on shaking a little longer, 2-3 minutes.

Would love input! BTW, the yeast is Pacman.

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Old 04-03-2011, 05:39 AM   #2
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How much sugar did you put in the recipe? If you're trying to finish at 1.007, that's 92% attenuation, which is pretty hard, but doable. I get similar attenuation on my strong Belgian beers. I pitch onto a whole cake of yeast, like from a whole batch of 1.05-ish beer. I also use plain sugar for up to 20% of the grist.

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Old 04-03-2011, 05:42 AM   #3
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What's your mash for this one? Also, as said, some normal table sugar will definitely help dry it out.

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Old 04-03-2011, 05:46 AM   #4
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BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Blizzard of Hopzz
Brewer: Brewhaus 1337
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.89 gal
Estimated OG: 1.090 SG
Estimated Color: 11.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 115.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
15 lbs NW Pale Ale (2.7 SRM) Grain 82.19 %
1 lbs Toasted Malt (27.0 SRM) Grain 5.48 %
8.0 oz Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 2.74 %
8.0 oz Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (60.0 Grain 2.74 %
1.00 oz Williamette [5.20 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Nugget2 [12.00 %] (90 min) Hops 30.6 IBU
2.00 oz Nugget [12.20 %] (60 min) Hops 58.1 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [5.20 %] (30 min) Hops 9.5 IBU
1.00 oz Liberty [4.30 %] (20 min) Hops 6.9 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo2 [8.60 %] (15 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
1 lbs 4.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6.85 %
5.50 gal Eugene, OR Water
1 Pkgs Pac-Man (Wyeast Labs) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 17.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 21.25 qt of water at 164.5 F 149.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 17.00 qt of water at 201.7 F 170.0 F

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Old 04-03-2011, 05:50 AM   #5
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I'm definitely gonna make some changes to the hop schedule, but the malt character is pretty dialed in to what I'm after. This was a first run for the recipe.

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Old 04-03-2011, 01:43 PM   #6
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Take out 10% of the sugars and replace with table sugar. It will barely change the character of the beer but will get you much better attenuation.

But I hate to be a damper - I don't think you can achieve these massive attenuation expectations without oxygen. Especially on a huge beer, and especially since you said, "Always I shake wort to aerate, this time plan on shaking a little longer, 2-3 minutes." I would say 2-3 minutes is way under oxygenated for even a small beer.

I know your temptation is going to be to cite the videos out there produced by Wyeast or whatever that say a couple minutes of shaking achieves 8ppm O2. If that's what you believe, there's nothing I can say. But I noticed a HUGE improvement in the speed of fermentation, the health of my yeast, and especially the attenuation when I started using pure O2.

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Old 04-03-2011, 02:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanzimonson View Post
Take out 10% of the sugars and replace with table sugar. It will barely change the character of the beer but will get you much better attenuation.

But I hate to be a damper - I don't think you can achieve these massive attenuation expectations without oxygen. Especially on a huge beer, and especially since you said, "Always I shake wort to aerate, this time plan on shaking a little longer, 2-3 minutes." I would say 2-3 minutes is way under oxygenated for even a small beer.

I know your temptation is going to be to cite the videos out there produced by Wyeast or whatever that say a couple minutes of shaking achieves 8ppm O2. If that's what you believe, there's nothing I can say. But I noticed a HUGE improvement in the speed of fermentation, the health of my yeast, and especially the attenuation when I started using pure O2.
OK, I got my flame suit on.

I recently brewed a west coast style barley wine with an OG of 1.092. This was a 4 gallon batch and I pitched 2 packs of rehydrated Safale US-05. This brew was nothing but grain, as in no added sugars, and finished at 1.015. Brewhouse efficiency was fair for this big of a beer at 63%, but the US-05 cranked out well over 80% attenuation by my calculation. I aerated well while transfering into the carboy and controlled fermentation temp.

Just my opinion, but if there's a high quality dry yeast available that fits the style you're brewing, liquid yeast, starters and fancy oxy setups are a waste of time and money in most cases.

Granted, many styles require these extra steps, to produce a great beer, but great beers are also produced without them.

Sorry if you think I hijacked this thread,

Bob
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Old 04-03-2011, 03:07 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBailey

OK, I got my flame suit on.

I recently brewed a west coast style barley wine with an OG of 1.092. This was a 4 gallon batch and I pitched 2 packs of rehydrated Safale US-05. This brew was nothing but grain, as in no added sugars, and finished at 1.015. Brewhouse efficiency was fair for this big of a beer at 63%, but the US-05 cranked out well over 90% attenuation by my calculation. I aerated well while transfering into the carboy and controlled fermentation temp.

Just my opinion, but if there's a high quality dry yeast available that fits the style you're brewing, liquid yeast, starters and fancy oxy setups are a waste of time and money in most cases.

Granted, many styles require these extra steps, to produce a great beer, but great beers are also produced without them.

Sorry if you think I hijacked this thread,

Bob
That's about 83% attenuation, not over 90%.
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Old 04-03-2011, 04:45 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williamnave View Post
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Blizzard of Hopzz
Brewer: Brewhaus 1337
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.89 gal
Estimated OG: 1.090 SG
Estimated Color: 11.2 SRM
Estimated IBU: 115.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
15 lbs NW Pale Ale (2.7 SRM) Grain 82.19 %
1 lbs Toasted Malt (27.0 SRM) Grain 5.48 %
8.0 oz Carahell (Weyermann) (13.0 SRM) Grain 2.74 %
8.0 oz Crystal Malt - 60L (Thomas Fawcett) (60.0 Grain 2.74 %
1.00 oz Williamette [5.20 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (Dry Hop 21 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Nugget2 [12.00 %] (90 min) Hops 30.6 IBU
2.00 oz Nugget [12.20 %] (60 min) Hops 58.1 IBU
1.00 oz Williamette [5.20 %] (30 min) Hops 9.5 IBU
1.00 oz Liberty [4.30 %] (20 min) Hops 6.9 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo2 [8.60 %] (15 min) Hops 10.2 IBU
1 lbs 4.0 oz Corn Sugar (Dextrose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 6.85 %
5.50 gal Eugene, OR Water
1 Pkgs Pac-Man (Wyeast Labs) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Full Body
Total Grain Weight: 17.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Full Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 21.25 qt of water at 164.5 F 149.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 17.00 qt of water at 201.7 F 170.0 F
Some suggestions that I would make are as follows. I would extend the mash time to 90 min. Anything under 150 F should be mashed for 90 min. I would also decrease the mash temp to around 145-147 F and add some simple sugars to the recipe. Also, it appears you originally under pitched for the one that stopped at 1.025. If your not already doing this, I would use a pitching rate calculator to be sure you are pitching the right amount of yeast. Also, if possible I would ferment at higher than 60 F. In general, it is a good idea to pitch low then let the temp gradually rise then hold at the desired fermentation temp. I would also skip the mash out step, which would allow additional time for the enzymes to continue to work. As previously pointed out, it is preferable to use pure O2 as O2 doesn't dissolve in solution as well when the sugar content increases.
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Old 04-03-2011, 06:22 PM   #10
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Thanks everybody!

To answer a few random posters in no particular order, sorry, too lazy to do the whole quoting thing....

I have thought about getting an O2 setup going, right now just isn't in budget. So for now going to have to just shake the crap out of it.

I've never really used dry yeasts, and I make an normal IPA with Pacman, and really like the crisp, dry flavor I get and want that in my IIPA. According to Wyeast it can attenuate like a beast, and is alcy tolerant to nearly 12%. A guy at my LHBS used to work @ rogue, and told me PM does best at 60 and that's why I'm trying to get temp down.

I'm open to the idea of plain table sugar, but 10% would be only 2oz. Is that really going to make a difference? Should I do more?

Someone mentioned mashing longer.....I like that, consider your idea incorporated. Gonna make a long, long brewday, but oh well....

Thanks everyone, and keep the suggestions coming....Wednesday is Brewday!

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