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-   -   Help Defining Yeast Rinsing Layers, British 1098 (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/help-defining-yeast-rinsing-layers-british-1098-a-373889/)

bluelakebrewing 12-13-2012 04:34 AM

Help Defining Yeast Rinsing Layers, British 1098
 
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Hey everybody, very insightful forum, keep up the good work! It has taught me more than I ever could have imagined Id know about beer. Thank you!

I had a quick question regarding yeast rinsing/washing and correctly identifying the different layers in the settled slurry after directly racking from the primary into a 64 oz growler. The strain in 1098.

It was my understanding that the heavier trub and debris would settle to the bottom. Counting from top to bottom, 1-4, it seems there is a very faint layer of trub at the very bottom, 4, as well as layer 2. Is layer 1 beer/water and layer 3 healthy yeast?

Thanks much.
http://http://www.homebrewtalk.com/a...1&d=1355376216

Antler 12-13-2012 06:59 AM

I'm not sure but I think you let it settle too long. Most people stir up the slurry and then let it sit at room temp for roughly 30 minutes, then pour off the slurry into another jar. Doing this, the trub/dead yeast/hop matter will settle, and everything left in suspension will be good yeast!

el_caro 12-13-2012 12:13 PM

I suspect your yeast flocculated and fell out of suspension quicker than the proteins. Have not had experience with 1098 but it seems it is only medium flocculator. You could rewash the yeast or pour of the darker layer but I suspect there is a lot of yeast in that darker layer also that you may be dumping. Have not seen it quite as pronounced as your pic.

WoodlandBrew 12-13-2012 12:55 PM

Cell counts I gave done on three different strains and fermentation tests indicate that all layers have the same viability. Cell counts are here:
http://woodlandbrew.blogspot.com/201...g-exposed.html

Later this month I'll post the fermentation observations. They seem to indicate that even during active fermentation the suspended cells have the same mix of live and dead cells as the slurry on the bottom of the vessel.

WoodlandBrew 12-13-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by el_caro (Post 4678076)
I suspect there is a lot of yeast in that darker layer also that you may be dumping.

I agree 100% with this part. IME the amount of protein trub is also very similar between the layers. By dumping the layer that is darker you might be removing slightly more protein than the other layer. Under the microscope it looks like a 10%-20% difference in protein content at most.

jerrodm 12-13-2012 01:00 PM

Yep--I say, swirl it up, wait 20 minutes, pour off the top layer. That's your yeast. The rest is probably OK too, but you'll get the cleaner stuff that way, and most of the nasties will have settled out.

WoodlandBrew 12-13-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antler (Post 4677903)
... stir up the slurry and then let it sit at room temp for roughly 30 minutes, then pour off the slurry into another jar. Doing this, the trub/dead yeast/hop matter will settle, and everything left in suspension will be good yeast!

Has any one done cell counts to verify this? It's a common statement I hear, but my experience is that there is an even mix of live and dead cells between the layers. At one point Wyeast promoted this technique, but it seems they have removed it from their site.

WoodlandBrew 12-13-2012 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrodm (Post 4678171)
The rest is probably OK too, but you'll get the cleaner stuff that way, and most of the nasties will have settled out.

I agree that the rest is probably okay. We might be using different terms. If by "nasties" you mean hop debris, then I agree. My experience is that the bacteria stay suspended better than the yeast. Typically if there is 0.5% bacteria per live cell in the thick slurry there is about 5% bacteria per live cell in the liquid at the top.

pabloj13 12-13-2012 01:18 PM

That big thick creamy white layer is the yeast.

pabloj13 12-13-2012 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoodlandBrew (Post 4678176)
Has any one done cell counts to verify this? It's a common statement I hear, but my experience is that there is an even mix of live and dead cells between the layers. At one point Wyeast promoted this technique, but it seems they have removed it from their site.

It totally depends on the yeast. The sticky gives fantastic directions for washing and getting really nice cell counts (verified by microscope). However, confusion sets in in cases (like this one) where the yeast flocs out really quickly. The creamy white layer is the best layer for live cell counts. Most of the time that is the stuff that stays in suspension, but not always.


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