ayoungrad

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I'm going to be brewing a german hefe and ordered 3068 yeast to do the job. It sounds like the strain is known for both banana and clove esters. My goal is to try to increase the clove component. In looking around, some seem to say lower fermentation temps would help this. Given this, I was thinking of fermenting at 65F. Any thoughts?

SickTransitMundus

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Cold is good. Wyeast's description of 3068 also says you can minimize esters by overpitching, if you can make a big enough starter.

__________________
Fermenting: Gerboise Bleue Farmhouse Ale. Ivy Mike Citra-Victory Pale Ale.
Kegged: Colonized By Wankers Wee Heavy. Spanked By Leviathan Barleywine. Green Hell Double IPA.
On tap: Castle Bravo American Stout. Silence of the Chavs Robust Porter. Smell the Glove Bretted Quad.
Gallons in 2011: 145 and counting.

ayoungrad

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For my pitching rate I was planning to follow Mr. Malty's starter suggestions. You think I should go even higher?

I just read that clove is actually from phenols, not esters. Maybe this is why lower temps might work? Lowering the number of esters and allowing the phenols to come through?

ayoungrad

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Just found the link you must have read on the Wyeast site. Guess that answers my questions. Thanks.

SickTransitMundus

Recipes 

Yes, clove flavors come from 4-vinyl guiacol, a phenol. Assuming you have an OG of 1.050 and a stir plate, Mr Malty suggests a 1 liter starter with one smack pack. Maybe increase that by 50% with a 1.5L starter? I've never intentionally overpitched - other than reusing yeast cakes, which I don't do anymore - so I can only guess.

This paper suggests you can also inhibit esterification by overaerating the wort. Apparently O2 inhibits the transferase enzyme that sticks an acetyl group onto ethanol. If you have an O2 setup, maybe you could double the time you aerate. PM me with your email if you can't see the full paper and I can send you a PDF.

http://www.springerlink.com/content/v3l3658v53x55w43/

My (untrained) sensory perception is that esters overwhelm phenols, like rock beats scissors.

__________________
Fermenting: Gerboise Bleue Farmhouse Ale. Ivy Mike Citra-Victory Pale Ale.
Kegged: Colonized By Wankers Wee Heavy. Spanked By Leviathan Barleywine. Green Hell Double IPA.
On tap: Castle Bravo American Stout. Silence of the Chavs Robust Porter. Smell the Glove Bretted Quad.
Gallons in 2011: 145 and counting.

ayoungrad

Recipes 

I don't have O2 but thanks for the other info.

As long as we are on the subject, what do you use for the viability on Mr. Malty's calculator? It seems more like guesswork than anything else.

chicagobrew

Recipes 

You're going to get plenty of banana even with overpitching and a colder ferment. I just finished a batch with this yeast that was fermented at 59-62F and I still think it has too much banana. I split this batch and did the other half with 3333. The 3333 has less banana and a better clove balance, IMO. I've made a decision to stop using 3068.

Also, 3068 is explosive, so watch out. When they say 33% headspace they mean it. Give yourself plenty of room and use a blowoff tube for the first few days. I've blown up 2 fermenters total and both were with this yeast.

__________________
O'zapft is!

SickTransitMundus

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I enter the date printed on the smack pack. It looks like Mr. Malty's viability calculations assume a ~20% drop in viability every month. That seems like a lot to me - I've made starters from 6-month old packs with no ill effect.

I don't know of a better way to determine viability numbers other than selective staining, which requires a microscope and some specialty chemicals.

http://www.beer-brewing.com/beer-brewing/brewers_yeast/yeast_viability_replacement.htm

__________________
Fermenting: Gerboise Bleue Farmhouse Ale. Ivy Mike Citra-Victory Pale Ale.
Kegged: Colonized By Wankers Wee Heavy. Spanked By Leviathan Barleywine. Green Hell Double IPA.
On tap: Castle Bravo American Stout. Silence of the Chavs Robust Porter. Smell the Glove Bretted Quad.
Gallons in 2011: 145 and counting.

SickTransitMundus

Recipes 

And I am not a big fan of 3068 for chicagobrews's reasons. I haven't used it since my days of extract brewing, so maybe things would be different now that I've improved my skills.

Another yeast you might consider is WY3944, Belgian Wit. It may not be style-appropriate for a German hefe but it definitely favors phenols over esters. I've used it a lot and can attest to Wyeast's description.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_yeaststrain_detail.cfm?ID=69

__________________
Fermenting: Gerboise Bleue Farmhouse Ale. Ivy Mike Citra-Victory Pale Ale.
Kegged: Colonized By Wankers Wee Heavy. Spanked By Leviathan Barleywine. Green Hell Double IPA.
On tap: Castle Bravo American Stout. Silence of the Chavs Robust Porter. Smell the Glove Bretted Quad.
Gallons in 2011: 145 and counting.

ayoungrad

Recipes 

Damn. I already ordered the yeast. 2 smack packs. Not going to waste them so I guess I'll just make a good starter to overpitch, ferment at 64 (lowest recommended) and hope for the best. Then again, true german hefes should have fairly high esters anyway.