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Old 10-13-2011, 06:38 PM   #61
cheier
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Originally Posted by smokinghole View Post
On my high gravity beers this didn't do anything. I really think this needs to be used in conjunction with filtering to reap the benefits. Just dumping it into a fermentor did nothing for my clarity.
It won't do anything for your clarity of yeast and other particulate that are still floating around in the beer. It only helps with chill haze, which can't be filtered out of the beer. I agree that filtration or some other type of fining (I use polyclar) would be required to clear the beer sooner. I have a barley wine that didn't go crystal clear for at least 4 months without filtering or fining.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:41 PM   #62
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I and Charlie would beg to differ with you - go to this link - "http://www.examiner.com/beer-in-national/gluten-free-beer-reduced-gluten-beer-offers-real-beer-taste-for-celiac-impaired" (For some reason the URL option does not work on this site, so I just posted the URL.)

And I have used Clarity Ferm successfully to remove/break down glutens so that the beer was safe for my celiac friends. I did 2 different 10-gallon batches where I split them between 2 fermenters, one with and one without Clarity Ferm. I tested both after fermentation. The 5 gallons without CF came in off the charts for gluten content, while the other 5 came in under 5 PPM.

The reason that White Labs (and the makers of Brewer's Clarex, DSM) doesn't say that it removes gluten is because they do not want the hassle of dealing with the product that was designed as a clarifier. I use EZGluten (ezgluten.com) to test my results and so far they have been consistent.

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Old 10-14-2011, 06:24 AM   #63
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If you're referring to my comment about it not getting rid of gluten, I will note that I do stand by my remarks, on the basis that rendering gluten inert will still fool a standard ELISA based quantitative gluten analysis test, even if the proteins still exist in solution. They will just simply not react to the test because the proteins no longer exhibit the behaviour the tests were designed to detect. They don't detect glutens at a molecular level. If the molecule sticks in the test, then you have a positive result for gluten. If not, because it is rendered inert, the test will not show detectable gluten.

To truly do an analysis on whether the gluten protein actually breaks up and drops out of solution, you would need to put a sample under a mass spectrometer to detect the protein molecules. This is research I would like to do, but time and money are issues.

EDIT: My opinions on the matter are a direct result of discussions with White Labs and Health Canada regarding the possibility of labelling a product gluten free. At best as far as I can tell, it could be called celiac safe, but not gluten free. If the enzyme does break up the proteins, it still couldn't be classified as gluten free unless you could prove that broken proteins don't cause issues in gluten sensitive people. Further research and testing would need to be done for Health Canada to let you call a beer celiac safe using this enzyme. White Labs is interested in further research on this.

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Old 10-14-2011, 01:57 PM   #64
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My celiac friends provided me with the proof I needed. But for the scientifically-minded brewer, here is a scientific explanation of what exactly happens with Brewer's Clarex/Clarity-Ferm (from "http://noglutennoproblem.blogspot.com/2010/10/product-review-estrella-damm-daura.html"). I am not a scientist, but I was able to understand this:
peterbronski [the author of the post] said...
Hi Otis... Thanks for your comment and caution. As you probably know, Brewers Clarex isn't the only way brewers reduce the amount of gluten in their beers - selecting low-protein varieties of barley, several steps of the brewing process, and prolonged cold storage (or other clarifying methods) all incrementally serve to reduce the total gluten present in a beer.

As far as peptides go, I think your concern is understandable, but - in my opinion - unfounded. I've interviewed several prominent Celiac researchers and brewing scientists on this topic, and have also read the peer-reviewed journal articles on the topic. Here are some things to keep in mind:

For starters, if you're interested in the citation for the original research mentioned in the LiveScience article link you provided, here it is:

"www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20650871"

Brewers Clarex is classified as a prolyl endoprotease, which basically means a "protein eating" enzyme that specifically targets the amino acid proline. The research you cite found that three peptides - each about 12 amino acids long - seem to cause many of the Celiac related problems. Scientists have previously sequenced barley hordein (for example, in this study in Biomedical and Life Sciences: "www.springerlink.com/content/a112273645778415/") and found that proline occurs more frequently than every 12 amino acids. It then stands to reason that barley hordein "digested" by proline-seeking Brewers Clarex would yield peptides too small to cause a Celiac reaction.

This seems to hold up in more recent studies. One study published in a 2006 issue of the American Journal of Physiology ("www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16690904") and a 2008 study published in the journal Gut ("www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17494108") both found that the prolyl endoprotease used in Brewers Clarex sufficiently degraded gluten to levels safe for Celiacs. They determined this not only by testing for full gluten, but also by looking for T cell immune reactivity to partial gluten peptides. In other words, the barley hordein peptides remaining after using Brewers Clarex are either too small or not the right type to cause a Celiac gluten response.

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Old 10-14-2011, 02:02 PM   #65
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Thanks for that great info gaviga, lots of great reading in those articles. My wife has been symptom free after my beers so far with the Clara ferm!

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Old 10-14-2011, 02:15 PM   #66
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Thanks. That is just the kind of research I was looking for. Looks like I'll have a bit of reading to do. I'll hopefully get an opinion on the matter from Health Canada once I can get a handle on it.

Cheers!

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Old 10-15-2011, 03:31 PM   #67
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I tried it and didn't think it did much for eliminating chill haze. I still wound up filtering the beer.

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Old 10-24-2011, 08:55 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by gaviga View Post
This seems to hold up in more recent studies. One study published in a 2006 issue of the American Journal of Physiology ("www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16690904") and a 2008 study published in the journal Gut ("www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17494108") both found that the prolyl endoprotease used in Brewers Clarex sufficiently degraded gluten to levels safe for Celiacs. They determined this not only by testing for full gluten, but also by looking for T cell immune reactivity to partial gluten peptides. In other words, the barley hordein peptides remaining after using Brewers Clarex are either too small or not the right type to cause a Celiac gluten response.
Wow, that's a very interesting study!

Do you know if there are any guidelines, e.g. down a 5mL vial of Clarity Ferm and then you can have a slice of pizza? My Celiac girlfriend would love that...
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Old 12-09-2011, 04:08 PM   #69
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I'm interested in using Clarity Ferm to brew a beer that my celiac friend can drink.

How does it work? I just dump the vial in along with the yeast, then everything else like normal? (i.e., let it sit in a bucket for a couple weeks, rack it to a carboy for another couple weeks, cold crash for a few days, then keg it.)

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Old 12-10-2011, 02:44 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by rglarson13 View Post
How does it work? I just dump the vial in along with the yeast, then everything else like normal? (i.e., let it sit in a bucket for a couple weeks, rack it to a carboy for another couple weeks, cold crash for a few days, then keg it.)
Yep, I just throw it in exactly when I pitch my yeast. I'm not sure if there is a minimum time it needs, I've just waited till fermentation is over.
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