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-   -   flocculent yeast + high gravity + extended secondary = no carbonation? (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/flocculent-yeast-high-gravity-extended-secondary-no-carbonation-163130/)

permo 02-15-2010 03:24 PM

flocculent yeast + high gravity + extended secondary = no carbonation?
 
I have a strong scotch ale that I used nottinham ale yeast for. 1.075 OG 1.019 FG..tastes great.

I primary fermented for 2 weeks, and moved to secondary at 55 degrees for 3 months. I recently primed and bottled this beer, and I am a bit concerned. this beer is crystal clear.......I am wondering if there will be enough yeast to carbonate this beer? I have them all sitting at 70 degrees

I know this has been beat to death on the boards, but I didn't think 3 months was long enough to floc all the yeast!

Brooklyn-Brewtality 02-15-2010 03:25 PM

don't worry. that beer could look crystal clear, but there is more than likely plenty of yeasties floating around in there.

david_42 02-15-2010 05:34 PM

It might take a bit longer, but it is almost impossible to remove enough yeast from homebrew to prevent carbonation.

permo 02-15-2010 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by david_42 (Post 1884413)
It might take a bit longer, but it is almost impossible to remove enough yeast from homebrew to prevent carbonation.

That is what I like to hear.

This has also got me thinking. I have a big %10 ABV barley wine that I just racked to secondary, I planned on 6 months in secondary, I think that might be borderline too long to get good carbonation. Thoughts>

kevmoron 02-15-2010 06:34 PM

For beers greater than 8% ABV, it's very possible that bottle-carbing will not work without adding fresh yeast. In fact, it has happened to me several times, even after waiting several months with the bottles at room temp. It's not a matter of having enough yeast left (in every case, i did get sedimentation), but rather of the viability of the yeast. For a 10% alc beer, the yeast will have been through a tough battle, and with 10% alcohol, they simply quit working. In that case you would need to add a fresh dose of a more alcohol tolerant strain to get the carbonation.

For the poster above, 6 months in 10% alcohol will kill just about any yeast. I would be amazed if you get carbonation from what is left in the beer. Just add a fresh, alcohol-tolerant yeast, and you will be good to go.

permo 02-15-2010 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevmoron (Post 1884565)
For beers greater than 8% ABV, it's very possible that bottle-carbing will not work without adding fresh yeast. In fact, it has happened to me several times, even after waiting several months with the bottles at room temp. It's not a matter of having enough yeast left (in every case, i did get sedimentation), but rather of the viability of the yeast. For a 10% alc beer, the yeast will have been through a tough battle, and with 10% alcohol, they simply quit working. In that case you would need to add a fresh dose of a more alcohol tolerant strain to get the carbonation.

For the poster above, 6 months in 10% alcohol will kill just about any yeast. I would be amazed if you get carbonation from what is left in the beer. Just add a fresh, alcohol-tolerant yeast, and you will be good to go.

Great, the beer I currently have bottled is 7.2% so the yeast should be in good shape....my bigger barleywine....I think I will pitch a fresh nottingham washed slurry into the bottling bucket...just to be sure there is enough in there to do the job right.

kevmoron 02-15-2010 08:13 PM

Don't take my 8% recommendation as a hard and fast rule, as it is arbitrary. For 7.2% I'm sure you will be fine.

Also, you could always try bottling the barleywine and waiting a month or two to see if it works, if you have a way to aliquot a measured amount of yeast to each bottle later, in case it fails. I had a Quadrupel that failed to carbonate, and out of laziness I let it sit in the bottles for 6 months before adding new yeast. I just uncapped each one and used a pipetman to aliquot 0.75 ml of slurry into each bottle, then recapped. After that, it carbonated within a couple of weeks.

EvilGnome6 02-15-2010 08:46 PM

I've had mixed results getting my higher-gravity Belgian ales to condition without pitching fresh yeast. This is why most Belgian brewers add fresh yeast at bottling time. Ommegang's Randy Thiel recommends it for beers with an OG over 1.060.

On the Yeast: Guide to Bottle Conditioning

Quote:

Yeast for bottle conditioning is your next concern, says Randy Thiel, the head brewer at Ommegang. Thiel explains that the yeast used during primary fermentation of strong Belgian brews —above 15 Plato or 1.060 original gravity — gets beat up during fermentation and will be of little value during bottle conditioning. If you condition your beer at least two weeks before bottling, most of this old yeast will drop out of suspension. Then you can add new yeast.
I have no idea whether or not yours will carbonate but pitching a little fresh yeast at bottling time for a big beer or one that has aged for a long time is cheap insurance, IMO.


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