Im brewing some cream ale tomorrow that i wanna try and make into 'cream lager'. Picked up some S-23 saflager from the LBHS today when i was grabbing my grain order, and the thought crap, i dunno if i can cut ferm temps that low! I ferment in my basement, and right now ts only down to about 58. Too high for saflager? What kind of off flavors could i expect, what is a diacetyl rest and will i need to perform one with this yeast? My brew giy told me that i should diacetyl rest after primary, but im not sure how long to primary a lager! Any thoughts??
According to the Fermentis Web site, that yeast can go as high as 59F...but the problem is that you are at 58 ambient room temperature...once fermentation gets active, it will raise the temp in your fermenter by 6+ degrees. I have heard of guys who put their fermenters in an ice bath and continue adding frozen bottles of water to keep the temp as low as you can (if you don't have a temp controlled fridge).
A diacetyl rest is done during the final third of fermentation where you raise the temp to around ale temps (I do 68) until the fermentation finishes. You ferment a lager as long as it takes to reach gravity - which is achieved through a gravity reading...just like an ale. Considering that you're fermenting on the high end, definitely do this as it will get rid of the butterscotch off flavors that diacetyl can throw.
The good news for you is that S-23 works well at temperatures that would be too high to get good results with most lager yeasts. If you can get that ambient temp down three or four degrees using the method suggested by the previous poster, you should get a good result.
D-rest is usually done about 8 points above FG; my rule of thumb for most lagers (except reaallllyyyy big ones) is to take my fermenter out of the chamber at 1.020 or just under (if I am expecting an FG in the 1.010 range) and let it finish up at room temperature. Seems to work well.
Guys thanks alot for the help. The diacetyl rest sounds like its def gonna happen given that with my current ferm room setup i cant swamp the carboy and i dont have a temp controlled fridge or freezer. Now as long as i can remember to move the beer up onto the main floor of the house the last few days... can you d rest in secondry after your fermentation has ceased or do you need thr yeast cake to clean up the diacetyl?
you can get a 20 gallon plastic storage container and use it as a water bath to buffer your carboy's temp from rising or falling too much due to ambient swings or yeast generated heat.
also, wouldn't a lager version of a cream ale be a light lager?
[QUOTE=" can you d rest in secondry after your fermentation has ceased or do you need thr yeast cake to clean up the diacetyl?
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Active yeast is the key to re-absorption of Dyacetal. Therefore there meeds to be active yeast and fermentable sugar in combination for it to be effective.It is possible that D rest is not needed but doubtful at higher temp ranges.
Assuming all else is perfect 2'things will make your lager taste weird and un-lager like....high temps and under pitching. There is post called lager 101 in general techniques that I'll see if I can find for you. It's an excellent quick breakdown of the basics of lagering.
Well i just f'd up royally anyway. Accidentally pitched my yeast at too high a temp(homebrew induced haze lol) i pitched at like 78, thought my temp was lower but wasnt aware my son turned off the water to my cf chiller to fill a squirtgun..... and forgot to take a gravity reading. So now itll just have to be an expiriment....
yes NH. yesterday it was sunny and clear temps were like 40s-50s. any ways, i checked the beer this am and the yeast had setles in nicely and krausen was starting to fomr. however, my ferm temps look like theyll be high as the warmer weather have caused my basement to come back up to ale temps. we'll see how it turns out i guess,, ill call it an alesner
first time using lager yeast. a few questions...
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